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calling all beings y'all

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yeah

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welcome back to calling all beings i'm

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your host dj and this is my brother

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nathan what's going on man what's going

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on dj have a good time

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big you know what i'm talking about oh

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yeah we talking about big yeah okay

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two meatball sandwiches utah okay yeah

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all right so tonight uh backstage we

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and we have a very very special

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guest uh tonight somebody that i

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couldn't imagine that would be on i'm

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sure nathan's imagination wasn't that

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broad either

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uh but you know what we're gonna do it

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so everybody like like start to generate

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up man because this is what we're

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talking about yes the author of american

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cosmic right the professor of religious

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studies

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the brilliant one party people put your

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hands together for none other than diana

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yes

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put them hands together come get some of

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this what you about to give you

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i doubt you've had an intro like that uh

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thus far no i'm like totally blushing

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the doctor

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incredible yes yes the show

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we're going to bring out to skin walker

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man she's going to roll up she's going

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to be like

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i'm going to tell it let me tell you

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something there

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i mean i'm not going to go there either

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i'll be running in my underwear out the

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front gate right past the dragon

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i'm going to tell you something doctor

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your book

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most

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significant work i've read since

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clifford the red dog

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awesome yeah i mean it's shared it's

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sharing a very very esteemed part of my

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bookshelf so i that's the company you

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keep and i want you to know that

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but what i want to ask you i actually

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have a question before i turn this over

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to nathan and i go silent i'm going to

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go dark you're just going to look like

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one of the shadow people that comes out

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the wall

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uh while this interview she's like what

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what talking about um so

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what i want to ask you is uh in the

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writing in this book

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um

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one of the things that you you talked

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about i don't know if it was in the uh

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the epilogue part of it or during the

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book is that it was very transformative

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for tyler obviously which is

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fascinating so i'm curious in your

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research that led up to this this

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beautiful work that you wrote

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was it uh informative would you say if

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you were to characterize it as hey this

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is very informative or was it

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transformative for you personally

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oh i would say it was both absolutely

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100 percent both if i so yeah i should

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have gave an a or a b and then that way

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i'm just kidding go ahead

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no no completely um if well informative

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absolutely because i learned a lot um

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transformative i guess because

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i was surprised by what i learned so

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as you know from um the first two months

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of serious research into the topic

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um it's almost as if the topic grabbed

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me and pulled me along and i was just

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like um i mean i i think i was

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in a sense i mean it's such a cliche to

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say but i was in the matrix

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and this was my

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you know

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this was like out of it yeah yeah so um

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yeah so that's pretty much

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how it happened yeah and it's still the

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same by the way i'm still being informed

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and transformed simultaneously

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i hope that we're gonna we're gonna talk

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about that tonight because the the the

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specter of the matrix and all this is is

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fascinating to me and

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all right i'm gonna i'm gonna turn it

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over to the man that you really want to

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talk to the man who also when he talks

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sometimes i get heart bubble emojis just

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like i got with you so so go for it

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nathan you're too kind yeah so it's

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great to have you with us on the show

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really looking forward to talking with

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you um i know what you're working on

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what's coming up on sort of on your

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plate is something that's dealing with

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synchronicity and creativity and i just

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wanted to say that the first question

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that i had is actually very similar to

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the one that dj just asked and we did

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not compare notes so that was kind of

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interesting but i wanted to start off

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with um

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looking at the religious studies angle

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of ufology and of the phenomenon and

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wanted to ask you were you surprised

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at the

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the degree to which

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you've kind of become elevated as a

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figure that is kind of closer to the the

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quote unquote truth you know that if we

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if we were to map

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uh the structure of let's say a church

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structure or whatnot a belief structure

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onto the

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you have those that are closest to the

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truth those are kind of the disciples

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those are kind of the

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uh or the firsthand experiencers and

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they are the ones that people look to

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for

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surprised that you were kind of elevated

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into that position uh after writing this

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um

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but that's really that's an interesting

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question i don't think i'd put the

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question that way if you don't mind me

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kind of rearranging it yeah please go

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for it okay yeah so um

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so i get people who email me right a lot

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now about the research and how do we do

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this research you know a lot of students

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a lot of people who are in graduate

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school a lot of

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you know uh scientists you know students

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who are scientists and scientists and um

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some of them are like how do i do this

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research well

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i felt like i had been

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it's not necessarily that i was elevated

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i think that

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i wasn't actually particularly looking

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that's how it works so um

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so

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you know there was um

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basically

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you can't go out and find it it has to

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actually

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come to you or you have to see that it's

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already here i think that's the correct

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way to do it because i certainly didn't

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search it out i didn't search out any of

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the people i read jacques villa's book

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right passport to agunya and i saw that

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it was like religious studies you know

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he was doing similar types of historical

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he was looking at historical patterns

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and making these you know uh conclusions

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and it looked like my book on purgatory

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frankly and so i reached out to him so

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in a sense yeah that's kind of similar

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you know maybe i'm you know but i found

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that um you know like tyler

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searched me out i didn't search him out

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and it took me a while to actually meet

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him and then i didn't search out james

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you know so i just kind of like i think

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i had a very uh sincere

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desire to know and i think that on some

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some i mean i'm just going to get super

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deep with you here yeah go for it one

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level you know

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um

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because why not right i mean

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we're here

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yeah so

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you know that's how it works so here

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here's an anecdote to explain it if i

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can because it sounds really convoluted

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at the moment

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um

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and it's kind of a personal anecdote i

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don't think i've ever told anybody this

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but um where i've told people but never

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publicly so um

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one of my uh brothers when he was young

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like 11

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um had

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experience so we're a family my father

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was an attorney

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and you know um kind of like

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your normal family american family

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and we didn't believe or talk about ufos

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internet nothing like that i'd never

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even seen

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um any of spielberg's films like

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none of it and so um my brother was on a

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hill riding his bicycle

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and i did

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apparently there was a a big orb that he

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said

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turned around and looked at him and then

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chased him down as he tried to get away

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and um he came down the hill and threw

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the bike in the driveway screaming

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running into the house and my mother and

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my father again completely

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straight-laced type people who would

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never think of ufos walk outside and see

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it

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and um

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my father thinking you know here i'm an

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attorney i'm going to call the police i

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thought they were going going to listen

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to him

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right yeah but they laughed at him yeah

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they laughed yeah yeah and he was like

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oh how could you know we saw this we sat

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and so i remember my family's having

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this um experience

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but none of us really

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followed up we didn't even think about

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it after that like i thought it was

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weird of course but we never like went

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remember that time this happened to sure

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blah blah blah now we never did that

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when i started to do this research i

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began to think what the heck was that

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yeah and so i went and i

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researched you know something that was

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at the same time period that this

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happened and i could i looked and looked

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and looked i knew there had to be there

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had to be other people who saw it

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because i wanted to cooperate that this

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actually happened and it wasn't like

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my family's group hallucination

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and because my mother after i started to

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do this research

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talk to me about it too she said i have

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to describe to you what this was like

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and so um

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and so

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what happened was that i s you know and

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i started this research in 2012 so now

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we're in 2019

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2000 you know and i've not found this

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now i'm not a bad researcher so i should

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have been able to find it right it's

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gotta be out there

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and so it's um halloween now you've got

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gotta understand i spent

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like hours looking for this like days

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and days like extended through time

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through years

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couldn't find it

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halloween

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is an important day for me it's an

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important day for catholics because it's

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all hallows eve right

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martin luther you know uh put the 95

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theses on the door in wittenberg and

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ignited the protestant reformation on

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halloween super important day huge so

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i'm sitting there and

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my brother sends me

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um

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the article

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00:11:07,269 --> 00:11:05,040
it was in this journal this mountain

281
00:11:08,870 --> 00:11:07,279
journal and he thought he didn't know i

282
00:11:10,870 --> 00:11:08,880
was looking for this nothing so he sent

283
00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:10,880
it on halloween i felt punk'd

284
00:11:14,949 --> 00:11:12,959
right wow because every you know i've

285
00:11:17,110 --> 00:11:14,959
been looking for it but when i wasn't

286
00:11:19,910 --> 00:11:17,120
looking for it it came to me on the most

287
00:11:23,509 --> 00:11:19,920
significant day of the year for me and i

288
00:11:25,750 --> 00:11:23,519
thought ah that was a good joke right

289
00:11:27,670 --> 00:11:25,760
so when you're not looking for it

290
00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:27,680
you know or if you're sincerely wanting

291
00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:29,920
to know i think that

292
00:11:34,069 --> 00:11:31,920
it's not like you're going to find it

293
00:11:36,389 --> 00:11:34,079
and um there's a great great quote by

294
00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:36,399
the way by kerry mullis and he the

295
00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:39,120
scientist who's the nobel chemist

296
00:11:43,829 --> 00:11:41,600
covered the polymerase chain reaction

297
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:43,839
and he had that he called it he called

298
00:11:49,670 --> 00:11:46,720
it a ufo event but um he described it

299
00:11:52,310 --> 00:11:49,680
being like a electric raccoon okay so um

300
00:11:54,790 --> 00:11:52,320
i became friends with him um

301
00:11:57,829 --> 00:11:54,800
and he has if you go to his website it's

302
00:12:01,269 --> 00:11:57,839
kerrymoles.com he's got such a great

303
00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:01,279
description of creativity and it's it's

304
00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:03,600
the best i've quoted it so many times

305
00:12:08,710 --> 00:12:06,000
it's in my book i believe but um

306
00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:08,720
i'll be quoting it again and if any of

307
00:12:12,230 --> 00:12:10,480
you are interested in how i would

308
00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:12,240
conduct the research how i would go

309
00:12:15,829 --> 00:12:13,680
about researching anything that i'm

310
00:12:17,670 --> 00:12:15,839
really super interested in due to that

311
00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:17,680
quote and and look at it and read it

312
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:20,320
because it's it's informative and

313
00:12:24,230 --> 00:12:22,160
transformative

314
00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:24,240
nice she brought it right back around

315
00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:25,200
there we go

316
00:12:28,629 --> 00:12:26,720
if you're not busy you can guess those

317
00:12:30,470 --> 00:12:28,639
next week

318
00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:30,480
no with skid walker ranch we'll bring

319
00:12:36,829 --> 00:12:32,800
hunt that's true we'll bring on diana

320
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:36,839
for uh we're having that yeah tj okay so

321
00:12:40,470 --> 00:12:39,200
um and i'm gonna try not to call you

322
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:40,480
doctor

323
00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:42,720
yeah yeah call me diana okay right now

324
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:44,720
i'm in shin mudra all right

325
00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:46,000
so

326
00:12:51,350 --> 00:12:47,200
um

327
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:51,360
you i didn't think while reading the

328
00:12:56,069 --> 00:12:53,040
book that you're kind of like the real

329
00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:58,870
is that am i am i right

330
00:13:05,190 --> 00:12:59,920
um

331
00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:05,200
when i wrote the book i honestly thought

332
00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:07,279
maybe 10 people

333
00:13:10,949 --> 00:13:08,560
would read it

334
00:13:13,190 --> 00:13:10,959
and i have a friend named dave metcalf

335
00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:13,200
um he's one of the most brilliant people

336
00:13:17,269 --> 00:13:15,200
i know and

337
00:13:19,269 --> 00:13:17,279
he and i were kind of talking about i

338
00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:19,279
was sending the chapters

339
00:13:23,590 --> 00:13:21,040
and you know i thought it was pretty

340
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:23,600
darn theoretical i was like ah

341
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:25,920
it's gonna go out there but 10 people

342
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:28,320
will get this book 10 people 10 people

343
00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:29,600
sorry

344
00:13:33,750 --> 00:13:31,519
in the first 10 minutes probably they

345
00:13:35,190 --> 00:13:33,760
got that book

346
00:13:38,230 --> 00:13:35,200
and you know

347
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:38,240
it was uh it didn't go like that so

348
00:13:43,509 --> 00:13:40,880
uh yeah i don't i don't try to be i'm

349
00:13:45,910 --> 00:13:43,519
just no i of course you're not but it's

350
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:45,920
just it's you know i it's like i want to

351
00:13:49,990 --> 00:13:47,600
go and trace the rose line with you

352
00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:50,000
right now okay anyway

353
00:13:53,670 --> 00:13:51,839
i mean i mean when i was doing it myself

354
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:53,680
i was like this is ridiculous you know

355
00:13:58,790 --> 00:13:56,639
the kind of thing that i'm doing is so

356
00:13:59,430 --> 00:13:58,800
so ridiculous nobody's going to believe

357
00:14:10,310 --> 00:13:59,440
it

358
00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:10,320
right so um

359
00:14:15,990 --> 00:14:13,440
yeah so i mean i'd go with my friend

360
00:14:17,590 --> 00:14:16,000
jeff cripel and i would go into a um

361
00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:17,600
university and give a talk and this is

362
00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:20,880
before the new york times articles hit

363
00:14:23,430 --> 00:14:21,680
okay

364
00:14:25,110 --> 00:14:23,440
we'd go we give a talk

365
00:14:27,189 --> 00:14:25,120
and jeff would do his thing and

366
00:14:29,350 --> 00:14:27,199
everybody would just be awesome so

367
00:14:31,990 --> 00:14:29,360
beautiful you know love it and then i do

368
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:32,000
my thing and i talk about ufos and tyler

369
00:14:35,189 --> 00:14:33,360
and james and

370
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:35,199
literally people would look at me like i

371
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:37,680
was complete idiot they were like don't

372
00:14:42,949 --> 00:14:39,760
you know that these people actually are

373
00:14:44,470 --> 00:14:42,959
fooling you and i'm like no no promise

374
00:14:46,870 --> 00:14:44,480
jeff knows them you know

375
00:14:50,069 --> 00:14:46,880
and you know so i would like

376
00:14:53,670 --> 00:14:50,079
i would be so um disrespected you could

377
00:14:56,389 --> 00:14:53,680
call it like everywhere until the until

378
00:14:58,230 --> 00:14:56,399
leslie and ralph uh published those in

379
00:15:00,629 --> 00:14:58,240
new york times after that they were

380
00:15:02,230 --> 00:15:00,639
calling me right right exactly she's

381
00:15:04,389 --> 00:15:02,240
like yeah how you like that now you read

382
00:15:07,030 --> 00:15:04,399
it in the new york times don't laugh at

383
00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:07,040
me that's right yeah well yeah and that

384
00:15:11,350 --> 00:15:08,560
and that gets to my point i guess my

385
00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:11,360
question and i i brought that up because

386
00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:12,720
when people knew that we were going to

387
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:14,560
have you on and so many people reach out

388
00:15:17,189 --> 00:15:16,399
to me that were like can you ask her

389
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:17,199
about

390
00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:19,680
insert secret whatever it is you know so

391
00:15:24,069 --> 00:15:22,240
you become identified as a person

392
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:24,079
who is you know more intimately

393
00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:27,120
connected or closer to the the point of

394
00:15:31,509 --> 00:15:29,600
revelation if we can put it that way uh

395
00:15:33,030 --> 00:15:31,519
then then others may be than the average

396
00:15:34,949 --> 00:15:33,040
in a sort of ufologist or person or

397
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:34,959
whatever whatever that might be so

398
00:15:39,350 --> 00:15:37,120
people are looking to you and people

399
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:39,360
like uh lou elizondo and chris mellon

400
00:15:43,269 --> 00:15:41,519
and these other insiders quote-unquote

401
00:15:45,670 --> 00:15:43,279
insiders you know for

402
00:15:48,069 --> 00:15:45,680
uh this sort of uh higher knowledge you

403
00:15:50,389 --> 00:15:48,079
know so higher truth and i just wonder

404
00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:50,399
how you kind of process that or

405
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:52,560
um what's a better way to think about it

406
00:15:56,310 --> 00:15:54,720
uh you know from someone who's on who's

407
00:15:58,069 --> 00:15:56,320
on the inside or has been at least a

408
00:15:59,910 --> 00:15:58,079
little bit on the inside from others

409
00:16:02,310 --> 00:15:59,920
perspective

410
00:16:04,470 --> 00:16:02,320
yeah okay i can give a better framework

411
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:04,480
if you are interested in that and it's

412
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:05,279
this

413
00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:07,680
i don't believe in an insider situation

414
00:16:12,150 --> 00:16:09,440
okay um obviously

415
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:12,160
when it was secret right when

416
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:13,360
tyler

417
00:16:18,470 --> 00:16:16,399
um was part of these programs that were

418
00:16:20,949 --> 00:16:18,480
secret okay and that i kind of stumbled

419
00:16:23,749 --> 00:16:20,959
upon i didn't know they existed

420
00:16:25,910 --> 00:16:23,759
um had no clue

421
00:16:28,389 --> 00:16:25,920
um and then

422
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:28,399
you know now we know they exist

423
00:16:36,629 --> 00:16:30,000
um so

424
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:39,829
i don't know that i mean luke listen

425
00:16:47,110 --> 00:16:41,199
there are

426
00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:47,120
being on the inside right because even

427
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:48,720
tyler i mean that's why i described it

428
00:16:53,670 --> 00:16:51,360
as a fight club because there were so

429
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:53,680
many different types of i knew so many

430
00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:55,519
different types of insiders who didn't

431
00:17:00,150 --> 00:16:57,600
know each other and could never talk to

432
00:17:04,150 --> 00:17:00,160
each other right um i had to lose

433
00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:04,160
friendships because people that i knew

434
00:17:09,029 --> 00:17:06,799
couldn't be associated with other people

435
00:17:11,110 --> 00:17:09,039
because of their because of what they

436
00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:11,120
did and they said that they would put it

437
00:17:14,630 --> 00:17:12,799
you know just frankly

438
00:17:16,230 --> 00:17:14,640
if you associate with that person i can

439
00:17:17,829 --> 00:17:16,240
never talk to you again

440
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:17,839
very seriously

441
00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:19,280
nothing personal

442
00:17:23,829 --> 00:17:22,000
just so um is that the stove piping is

443
00:17:27,029 --> 00:17:23,839
that what we hear like it has to be

444
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:27,039
rigidly maintained yeah yeah and um one

445
00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:29,120
of the people told me this because

446
00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:30,880
i did i was learning you know i'm not an

447
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:32,960
academic that's why i put in my book i

448
00:17:37,350 --> 00:17:35,200
hope people get that part in my book

449
00:17:39,430 --> 00:17:37,360
where i spend some time talking about

450
00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:39,440
the different ethics of different

451
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:41,840
communities and i talk about the fight

452
00:17:45,909 --> 00:17:43,360
club ethics of the people with

453
00:17:48,870 --> 00:17:45,919
clearances and then the ethics of people

454
00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:48,880
like me who are non-clearanced people

455
00:17:53,590 --> 00:17:50,160
who are just

456
00:17:56,870 --> 00:17:53,600
professors stumbling upon this right and

457
00:17:57,909 --> 00:17:56,880
um i think that you know we share our

458
00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:57,919
sources

459
00:18:01,029 --> 00:17:58,799
but

460
00:18:02,870 --> 00:18:01,039
they could not and still cannot in my

461
00:18:04,789 --> 00:18:02,880
interpretation so i know that there's a

462
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:04,799
lot of um

463
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:05,760
like

464
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:07,440
for want of a better work you know

465
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:09,280
disclosure going on or whatnot you know

466
00:18:13,750 --> 00:18:11,600
this kind of at least at least now my

467
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:13,760
work is not

468
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:16,640
suspect because before it was right and

469
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:18,400
now it's not thankfully

470
00:18:20,950 --> 00:18:19,600
um

471
00:18:24,310 --> 00:18:20,960
and

472
00:18:26,789 --> 00:18:24,320
i would be i would suggest that

473
00:18:29,110 --> 00:18:26,799
the fight club still is in process there

474
00:18:31,029 --> 00:18:29,120
is still a fight club um i would also

475
00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:31,039
suggest that

476
00:18:34,950 --> 00:18:32,320
um

477
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:34,960
talking about it like i did in my book

478
00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:38,160
doesn't give you keys

479
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:39,280
just because you know it's there doesn't

480
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:41,280
give you an invitation yeah no no in

481
00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:43,600
fact it um

482
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:46,080
it does the opposite hmm

483
00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:47,360
interesting

484
00:18:51,669 --> 00:18:49,600
and that's fine that's good because like

485
00:18:54,710 --> 00:18:51,679
i said there are so many listen

486
00:18:57,110 --> 00:18:54,720
a person should not have to have endured

487
00:18:58,230 --> 00:18:57,120
a lot of the kind of strange things that

488
00:19:00,789 --> 00:18:58,240
happened

489
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:00,799
um just because they are doing research

490
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:03,039
you know and then they come out and they

491
00:19:05,830 --> 00:19:04,320
wrote this book that honestly they

492
00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:05,840
didn't think people you know i mean

493
00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:07,760
academics their books generally aren't

494
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:09,360
read a lot by

495
00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:12,400
the general population and so when that

496
00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:15,440
did happen to me and my book did arrive

497
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:17,440
right at the moment when boom it all

498
00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:19,200
kind of um

499
00:19:21,430 --> 00:19:20,480
spilled out

500
00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:21,440
um

501
00:19:26,630 --> 00:19:24,640
you know it's like i needed to

502
00:19:29,350 --> 00:19:26,640
get away from the fight club you know

503
00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:29,360
because uh that's an intense place to be

504
00:19:33,990 --> 00:19:31,600
oh yeah i imagine it is

505
00:19:35,510 --> 00:19:34,000
well let me go go ahead please i was

506
00:19:38,390 --> 00:19:35,520
gonna say um

507
00:19:41,029 --> 00:19:38,400
if you were to put a rank order on

508
00:19:44,230 --> 00:19:41,039
things that you research

509
00:19:46,470 --> 00:19:44,240
where would ufology land on that

510
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:46,480
if you were to give it a one to ten rank

511
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:48,160
where would because obviously you're

512
00:19:52,150 --> 00:19:50,080
researching several different things in

513
00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:52,160
the course of your work i'm sure where

514
00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:54,080
would you rank ufology in terms of

515
00:19:59,190 --> 00:19:56,640
importance to you

516
00:20:02,230 --> 00:19:59,200
oh that's a great question um

517
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:02,240
so i'm doing a book i'm doing you know

518
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:04,720
research and sometimes two books can

519
00:20:09,669 --> 00:20:07,440
come out of your research right and so

520
00:20:11,830 --> 00:20:09,679
what i'm looking at right now and what i

521
00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:11,840
kind of started looking at with american

522
00:20:16,549 --> 00:20:13,120
cosmic

523
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:16,559
were um basically scientists who

524
00:20:20,789 --> 00:20:17,280
are

525
00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:20,799
hooked into some radical for want of a

526
00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:23,120
better word woo

527
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:24,080
okay

528
00:20:27,510 --> 00:20:26,000
like radical woo

529
00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:27,520
yep

530
00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:29,679
read carrie mullis's book and you'll see

531
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:32,400
okay and so people who are getting

532
00:20:37,029 --> 00:20:34,960
knowledge that that is coming from

533
00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:37,039
sources you know knowledge that's not

534
00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:38,960
coming from sources that

535
00:20:42,710 --> 00:20:40,720
people think scientists

536
00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:42,720
would pay attention to conventional and

537
00:20:45,909 --> 00:20:44,880
um and i noticed that it wasn't just

538
00:20:48,950 --> 00:20:45,919
these

539
00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:48,960
people i was talking to currently is

540
00:20:53,669 --> 00:20:52,240
also the history of the space program

541
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:53,679
and it was also

542
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:56,080
the history of science

543
00:21:00,310 --> 00:20:58,080
so much so that

544
00:21:02,230 --> 00:21:00,320
in the talks that i gave at universities

545
00:21:04,149 --> 00:21:02,240
afterwards we'd go out to dinner and

546
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:04,159
inevitably there would be the history of

547
00:21:08,470 --> 00:21:06,480
science people okay and this is a whole

548
00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:08,480
field it's called the history of science

549
00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:11,120
right and i would say to them who's

550
00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:13,120
going to write the book called the

551
00:21:18,630 --> 00:21:16,000
history of unorthodox science we need

552
00:21:20,630 --> 00:21:18,640
that book like you write it right and

553
00:21:22,390 --> 00:21:20,640
everyone was saying absolutely that is

554
00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:22,400
the book we need right now nobody's

555
00:21:27,270 --> 00:21:23,520
written it yet

556
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:27,280
and i was um i was talking to um and

557
00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:29,280
do you know evan weiss he does uh true

558
00:21:33,510 --> 00:21:31,840
stories and science podcasts so i was

559
00:21:35,430 --> 00:21:33,520
talking to him about it and he said you

560
00:21:37,669 --> 00:21:35,440
better write this book because i'm going

561
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:37,679
to write it if you don't and i was like

562
00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:39,679
you can't do that

563
00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:42,240
you're like i'm starting tonight

564
00:21:45,990 --> 00:21:44,080
it reminds me of the the drunk history

565
00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:46,000
episodes on history channel like uh

566
00:21:49,510 --> 00:21:47,600
where they go through the unorthodox

567
00:21:51,669 --> 00:21:49,520
histories you know yeah it is it's very

568
00:21:53,990 --> 00:21:51,679
much like that so it's um so i'm going

569
00:21:56,310 --> 00:21:54,000
to be talking about these scientists

570
00:21:58,310 --> 00:21:56,320
like tyler and james who are doing

571
00:22:01,029 --> 00:21:58,320
remarkable things and some of them you

572
00:22:03,510 --> 00:22:01,039
know like johann kepler right and these

573
00:22:05,430 --> 00:22:03,520
guys from way back and um and even women

574
00:22:07,590 --> 00:22:05,440
today there will be women you know who

575
00:22:08,950 --> 00:22:07,600
are gonna who i'm gonna feature and

576
00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:08,960
they're amazing they're doing they're

577
00:22:13,029 --> 00:22:11,360
scientists but they are you know at the

578
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:13,039
heart of what they're doing is something

579
00:22:16,549 --> 00:22:15,200
incredible what what we would study in

580
00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:16,559
religious studies that's what they're

581
00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:18,640
doing they're doing like what i would

582
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:21,280
say is a mysticism they're doing some

583
00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:24,080
type of mysticism so i would say that

584
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:27,120
ufology fits right below that

585
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:29,200
because um to come back to your question

586
00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:31,919
i know that was a long answer um but you

587
00:22:35,669 --> 00:22:33,120
know i mean

588
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:35,679
that's what i found when i went to look

589
00:22:41,430 --> 00:22:38,880
at ufos right i i found scientists from

590
00:22:43,270 --> 00:22:41,440
back in the day and even like in my in

591
00:22:46,149 --> 00:22:43,280
history that i do is catholic history

592
00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:46,159
doctors of the church right um teresa of

593
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:47,520
avila you go you know these are

594
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:48,960
brilliant people you go back and you

595
00:22:53,510 --> 00:22:50,880
look at what they've written and what

596
00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:53,520
they've done and there is some very

597
00:22:57,430 --> 00:22:55,200
weird stuff going on there even with

598
00:23:00,789 --> 00:22:57,440
little beans and things like that so you

599
00:23:02,950 --> 00:23:00,799
know even with electric raccoons

600
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:02,960
of all things that was on super mario at

601
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:05,840
some point um so yeah so this makes me

602
00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:08,400
think of uh

603
00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:10,240
the phenomenon seems to produce like

604
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:12,240
mysterious moments that are out of like

605
00:23:16,870 --> 00:23:14,400
reach of conception and it's almost like

606
00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:16,880
the very existence of those moments is

607
00:23:21,350 --> 00:23:19,200
the catalyst to to

608
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:21,360
production of some kind it's a yes it's

609
00:23:26,149 --> 00:23:23,760
the the flame that lights the the wick

610
00:23:27,909 --> 00:23:26,159
or whatever it is so

611
00:23:30,390 --> 00:23:27,919
and john keel talk talks about that too

612
00:23:31,750 --> 00:23:30,400
in his uh control system you know sort

613
00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:31,760
of hypothesis

614
00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:33,360
so is that what we're talking about you

615
00:23:37,029 --> 00:23:35,280
think that that what it's doing is

616
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:37,039
actually creating these moments of

617
00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:39,120
inspiration of

618
00:23:43,669 --> 00:23:41,120
it's like luring us into technological

619
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:43,679
development some kind in some way

620
00:23:48,310 --> 00:23:46,240
yeah that's a really good question um so

621
00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:48,320
first

622
00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:49,120
it's

623
00:23:53,110 --> 00:23:51,760
deep right so i don't know okay but i

624
00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:53,120
can speculate

625
00:23:57,430 --> 00:23:55,360
and like a lot now i have a lot more

626
00:24:00,789 --> 00:23:57,440
friends who are in academia you know who

627
00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:00,799
are academics and who we spend a lot of

628
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:03,200
time talking about this right and just

629
00:24:05,830 --> 00:24:04,640
thinking about it

630
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:05,840
you know waking up the middle of the

631
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:08,000
night writing stuff down sending it over

632
00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:09,760
text or email the next day

633
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:11,440
you know freaking each other out that

634
00:24:13,669 --> 00:24:12,480
kind of thing

635
00:24:15,430 --> 00:24:13,679
and um

636
00:24:17,669 --> 00:24:15,440
one person in particular

637
00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:17,679
i'm not going to say his name because he

638
00:24:20,549 --> 00:24:19,200
is uh

639
00:24:21,909 --> 00:24:20,559
he's at a taught he's at a top

640
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:21,919
university but

641
00:24:26,789 --> 00:24:23,600
there's still a stigma attached to this

642
00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:26,799
research okay um but this person focuses

643
00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:28,720
on synchronicity

644
00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:30,720
and um

645
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:31,520
okay

646
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:33,520
so

647
00:24:40,870 --> 00:24:39,760
what i'm beginning to think about is

648
00:24:43,269 --> 00:24:40,880
that

649
00:24:44,230 --> 00:24:43,279
it looks to be

650
00:24:49,269 --> 00:24:44,240
like

651
00:24:51,269 --> 00:24:49,279
synchronicity is an event right yeah

652
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:51,279
okay so if it's an event it has to do

653
00:24:53,669 --> 00:24:52,799
with time

654
00:24:56,070 --> 00:24:53,679
okay

655
00:24:59,110 --> 00:24:56,080
and then i think it and so this person

656
00:25:01,590 --> 00:24:59,120
informed me uh his idea is this because

657
00:25:04,310 --> 00:25:01,600
i can't ascribe it to me i didn't come

658
00:25:05,830 --> 00:25:04,320
up with this um his idea is this and he

659
00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:05,840
actually has to cite someone else too

660
00:25:10,070 --> 00:25:08,000
and i can't remember who that is um i

661
00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:10,080
might get his permission and give you a

662
00:25:11,750 --> 00:25:10,960
link

663
00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:11,760
and

664
00:25:16,710 --> 00:25:14,320
read his uh we're signing in chicago's

665
00:25:18,710 --> 00:25:16,720
17th edition on the show just so you

666
00:25:20,789 --> 00:25:18,720
know okay

667
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:20,799
manual style yes

668
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:22,320
um

669
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:28,320
we tend to think of time as linear

670
00:25:31,669 --> 00:25:30,000
because that's how we experience it sure

671
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:31,679
but what if we're experiencing another

672
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:34,000
form of time it's synchronously

673
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:34,880
right

674
00:25:39,990 --> 00:25:37,760
so these so time is coming to us in

675
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:40,000
different ways and synchronicity is the

676
00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:43,039
experience of that and so um i tend to

677
00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:45,120
and you asked about the control system

678
00:25:50,070 --> 00:25:47,440
um i tend to

679
00:25:51,029 --> 00:25:50,080
think of it almost like you know okay so

680
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:51,039
um

681
00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:52,640
jacques valet i think he's got this up

682
00:25:56,549 --> 00:25:54,080
on youtube i've seen him talk about him

683
00:25:59,350 --> 00:25:56,559
for so many times this idea that uh

684
00:26:01,350 --> 00:25:59,360
synchronicity is just like it would like

685
00:26:03,029 --> 00:26:01,360
you know consciousness is like a google

686
00:26:05,029 --> 00:26:03,039
search right so we're kind of you know

687
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:05,039
there's this technological metaphor

688
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:07,520
there you know you put stuff out there

689
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:09,520
and it comes back to you i tend to think

690
00:26:12,549 --> 00:26:11,760
of it more like this so

691
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:12,559
we

692
00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:16,720
search that's the language of an

693
00:26:21,909 --> 00:26:19,120
algorithm so in a sense it's almost like

694
00:26:25,269 --> 00:26:21,919
a sentient type of algorithm like an

695
00:26:27,110 --> 00:26:25,279
algorithm that is so incredibly

696
00:26:28,950 --> 00:26:27,120
internal to us knows us better than

697
00:26:31,110 --> 00:26:28,960
ourselves well heck that sounds like god

698
00:26:33,029 --> 00:26:31,120
right right that kind of language right

699
00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:33,039
that's that's like

700
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:35,600
weird and it's like an algorithm that

701
00:26:41,269 --> 00:26:38,720
you know gives us what we need to see

702
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:41,279
here if we're open to it right and it's

703
00:26:45,029 --> 00:26:43,679
a candy experience for sure right well

704
00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:45,039
you touched on this recently and i

705
00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:47,200
forget which show it was but um the

706
00:26:50,950 --> 00:26:49,360
talking about pierre tejar de chardin

707
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:50,960
and i i

708
00:26:54,149 --> 00:26:52,480
remembered about that back from my

709
00:26:55,830 --> 00:26:54,159
seminary days and i was like oh let's

710
00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:55,840
look at that one more time but the idea

711
00:26:59,430 --> 00:26:57,919
of the new the newest fear and um i was

712
00:27:01,510 --> 00:26:59,440
wondering if you could speak to

713
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:01,520
both the the notion of the newest fear

714
00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:03,200
as well as his concept of the omega

715
00:27:07,909 --> 00:27:05,520
point and maybe kind of unpack that for

716
00:27:10,149 --> 00:27:07,919
folks what is the newest fear what are

717
00:27:12,630 --> 00:27:10,159
we talking about does it exist or will

718
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:12,640
it exist in from from

719
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:14,320
a chardonnay's standpoint

720
00:27:19,269 --> 00:27:16,799
yeah so for uh folks who don't know who

721
00:27:21,909 --> 00:27:19,279
he is he's well worth looking into de

722
00:27:24,149 --> 00:27:21,919
chardon so he was a jesuit friend he was

723
00:27:26,230 --> 00:27:24,159
a french jesuit priest

724
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:26,240
and in the catholic church obviously or

725
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:27,840
wait was he a priest or a monk i can't

726
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:29,520
remember i think he was a priest but it

727
00:27:33,510 --> 00:27:30,880
doesn't matter because he was also an

728
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:33,520
anthropologist and a scientist right but

729
00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:35,760
even more interesting than that he was

730
00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:38,320
in the military yes he went i think it

731
00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:39,200
was like

732
00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:40,960
he did it all yeah that's right he was

733
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:43,039
he was a medic i think yeah yeah he was

734
00:27:48,710 --> 00:27:45,520
just this incredible human being right

735
00:27:51,909 --> 00:27:48,720
and so he was at on the front and it was

736
00:27:53,669 --> 00:27:51,919
you know in battle and he felt the

737
00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:53,679
this idea of the new sphere so it wasn't

738
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:56,399
it was actually tangible idea for him so

739
00:27:59,990 --> 00:27:57,840
he was in battle

740
00:28:02,870 --> 00:28:00,000
um he saw people getting killed and you

741
00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:02,880
know so but he was in this energy what

742
00:28:07,350 --> 00:28:05,840
he described as an energetic field

743
00:28:08,630 --> 00:28:07,360
and he

744
00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:08,640
it all came because he was really

745
00:28:13,269 --> 00:28:10,880
brilliant he was able to articulate this

746
00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:13,279
and see it as our future and he said

747
00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:14,960
that there will be

748
00:28:19,909 --> 00:28:17,440
a it you know we have like this sphere

749
00:28:21,750 --> 00:28:19,919
we have a biosphere you know and so he

750
00:28:23,750 --> 00:28:21,760
says this thing called the new sphere

751
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:23,760
when basically it's almost as if he was

752
00:28:28,870 --> 00:28:25,840
talking about the internet right but it

753
00:28:31,029 --> 00:28:28,880
was a psychic internet okay which by the

754
00:28:33,510 --> 00:28:31,039
way is kind of strange because jacques

755
00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:33,520
vale's early work in the 1970s was

756
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:36,000
specifically about that right

757
00:28:40,310 --> 00:28:38,240
and so um

758
00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:40,320
well that's fascinating to me especially

759
00:28:45,190 --> 00:28:42,640
people's own experience with technology

760
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:45,200
as as being that you know it's kind of

761
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:47,840
being something like a medium floor or

762
00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:49,360
even um

763
00:28:52,230 --> 00:28:51,200
you know something that

764
00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:52,240
helps them

765
00:28:55,669 --> 00:28:54,240
you know they even have what i call

766
00:28:58,710 --> 00:28:55,679
synthetic synchronicities

767
00:29:00,870 --> 00:28:58,720
synchronicities where you know obviously

768
00:29:03,510 --> 00:29:00,880
if your phone is listening to you you'll

769
00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:03,520
get stuff that you've been talking about

770
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:05,120
but what happens when you just think

771
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:07,840
about stuff and it comes up right

772
00:29:11,190 --> 00:29:08,960
maybe

773
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:11,200
but it happens it happens so much to

774
00:29:16,470 --> 00:29:13,200
people um that

775
00:29:18,149 --> 00:29:16,480
um it causes me to think a lot about hmm

776
00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:18,159
what's going on is the newest fear

777
00:29:22,389 --> 00:29:20,720
actually more here than we think it is

778
00:29:24,870 --> 00:29:22,399
and so um

779
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:24,880
another person that is um

780
00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:28,320
kurzweil is uh yeah as well yeah so the

781
00:29:34,470 --> 00:29:32,080
singularity isn't is like a 20th century

782
00:29:36,389 --> 00:29:34,480
take on the new sphere

783
00:29:38,230 --> 00:29:36,399
um and the omega point

784
00:29:40,149 --> 00:29:38,240
for deschardon

785
00:29:42,549 --> 00:29:40,159
is this idea that it's actually

786
00:29:44,549 --> 00:29:42,559
religious and spiritual right and if you

787
00:29:47,269 --> 00:29:44,559
read ray i've written about this

788
00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:47,279
if you if you read ray kurzweil's

789
00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:50,799
singularity it's the the book um the

790
00:29:54,549 --> 00:29:52,640
beginning of it the first chat the

791
00:29:57,430 --> 00:29:54,559
introduction the first chapter

792
00:30:00,230 --> 00:29:57,440
it's so incredibly spiritual it just

793
00:30:02,549 --> 00:30:00,240
drips with spirituality when he says i

794
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:02,559
felt it before i knew it i mean that

795
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:05,440
stay started on right there right yeah

796
00:30:08,630 --> 00:30:07,360
so there's something very fascinating

797
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:08,640
about those two

798
00:30:11,669 --> 00:30:09,919
that your

799
00:30:13,830 --> 00:30:11,679
listeners might want to

800
00:30:15,510 --> 00:30:13,840
check out yeah for sure

801
00:30:17,909 --> 00:30:15,520
um dj you had you had a follow-up i

802
00:30:20,789 --> 00:30:17,919
think yeah is it's on the last one but

803
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:20,799
what i was gonna ask you ma'am is um

804
00:30:25,029 --> 00:30:23,760
how often like uh does your hypothesis

805
00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:25,039
evolve like so if

806
00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:27,200
in a typical week or maybe it's it's on

807
00:30:32,470 --> 00:30:29,840
a month uh on a monthly basis where you

808
00:30:33,269 --> 00:30:32,480
start to contemplate the phenomenon as a

809
00:30:35,350 --> 00:30:33,279
whole

810
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:35,360
and how often do you have a new

811
00:30:39,590 --> 00:30:37,919
hypothesis and say to yourself wow diana

812
00:30:41,029 --> 00:30:39,600
i never thought about that one that's

813
00:30:44,070 --> 00:30:41,039
something i need to

814
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:44,080
concentrate on or something

815
00:30:47,269 --> 00:30:45,840
um

816
00:30:48,070 --> 00:30:47,279
how often

817
00:30:50,630 --> 00:30:48,080
right

818
00:30:52,230 --> 00:30:50,640
so um what i find is that when you

819
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:52,240
actually

820
00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:53,600
talk you know when you

821
00:30:57,509 --> 00:30:56,080
you're engaged in doing the research say

822
00:30:59,269 --> 00:30:57,519
you're talking with other people about

823
00:31:00,630 --> 00:30:59,279
it or you're actually sitting down and

824
00:31:02,470 --> 00:31:00,640
you're you have to write something up

825
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:02,480
because you have to give a talk or

826
00:31:06,389 --> 00:31:04,240
something like that that's when it

827
00:31:09,269 --> 00:31:06,399
happens that's when something that

828
00:31:12,389 --> 00:31:09,279
happened with american cosmic so

829
00:31:14,149 --> 00:31:12,399
i was i was struggling with every single

830
00:31:15,830 --> 00:31:14,159
chapter before it happened i was like i

831
00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:15,840
don't know what i'm gonna say you know i

832
00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:17,600
don't know what's what's going on and

833
00:31:20,789 --> 00:31:19,120
then i would you know and this would go

834
00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:20,799
go on for like two or three weeks and i

835
00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:23,039
would be um you know it would like

836
00:31:26,950 --> 00:31:25,600
terrorize me and then finally i would

837
00:31:28,630 --> 00:31:26,960
sit down

838
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:28,640
and i would and it would be in a coffee

839
00:31:32,070 --> 00:31:30,240
shop

840
00:31:35,029 --> 00:31:32,080
and i would just boom you know it would

841
00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:35,039
start to come out and then what i wrote

842
00:31:39,190 --> 00:31:37,279
was like it it wasn't even lying that's

843
00:31:41,830 --> 00:31:39,200
how i felt about it i felt like it was

844
00:31:43,509 --> 00:31:41,840
speaking to me and i was like wow what's

845
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:43,519
going to happen next and i would write

846
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:46,559
the next and go wow that's amazing

847
00:31:49,509 --> 00:31:48,000
yeah that's incredible and a lot of

848
00:31:51,029 --> 00:31:49,519
musicians say that about their about

849
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:51,039
their songs you know that they they're

850
00:31:55,590 --> 00:31:53,120
not sure where they came from that they

851
00:31:57,669 --> 00:31:55,600
have an experience of it as if it's not

852
00:32:00,870 --> 00:31:57,679
of them themselves yeah that is

853
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:00,880
autonomous yeah and it's um

854
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:03,840
it it's basically it's very a very

855
00:32:07,029 --> 00:32:04,880
strange

856
00:32:09,190 --> 00:32:07,039
thing yeah so that's what happens dj so

857
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:09,200
yeah so um

858
00:32:13,509 --> 00:32:11,760
you know very rarely does it come when

859
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:13,519
i'm just sitting there cogitating

860
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:16,080
thinking you know no no it has to you

861
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:17,600
have to actually be doing something i

862
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:20,240
think for it to happen

863
00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:22,080
right no definitely

864
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:24,399
and talking about this idea some more so

865
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:26,640
where

866
00:32:29,909 --> 00:32:28,559
this newest fear

867
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:29,919
this uh

868
00:32:34,149 --> 00:32:31,600
sentience this sort of that perm that

869
00:32:35,909 --> 00:32:34,159
may permeate reality itself

870
00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:35,919
do we have a sense in which the

871
00:32:39,509 --> 00:32:37,760
phenomenon that we're

872
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:39,519
hearing about observing

873
00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:41,360
and all of its varieties and so many

874
00:32:43,990 --> 00:32:42,480
different things that it seems to

875
00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:44,000
manifest as

876
00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:46,240
that it is

877
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:49,440
utilizing us as a means for its own

878
00:32:54,630 --> 00:32:51,840
manifestation

879
00:32:57,110 --> 00:32:54,640
oh nathan went there early he went there

880
00:32:58,870 --> 00:32:57,120
early man i love it

881
00:33:01,669 --> 00:32:58,880
are we conduits

882
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:01,679
creating a portal for its

883
00:33:17,190 --> 00:33:06,870
so

884
00:33:20,310 --> 00:33:17,200
like i always have to put it back and

885
00:33:21,509 --> 00:33:20,320
like reframe your question yeah so that

886
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:21,519
and because

887
00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:23,039
i find that people have a lot of

888
00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:24,960
assumptions when they have questions

889
00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:26,240
sure and i have to take those

890
00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:27,760
assumptions and say wait a minute you

891
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:28,480
know

892
00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:29,840
you've got this here we've got to

893
00:33:33,990 --> 00:33:31,519
address right you've got this there we

894
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:34,000
have to address okay so in one sense i

895
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:35,679
would have to say that

896
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:38,480
this sounds kind of like ai right

897
00:33:42,230 --> 00:33:40,320
ai is creating

898
00:33:43,990 --> 00:33:42,240
itself through us

899
00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:44,000
and we are doing it

900
00:33:48,149 --> 00:33:45,600
right so i would have to say that that

901
00:33:50,870 --> 00:33:48,159
seems kind of true um but i don't i

902
00:33:52,389 --> 00:33:50,880
don't necessarily say we're unconscious

903
00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:52,399
in doing it

904
00:33:56,470 --> 00:33:54,720
that's why i go back to oh this is this

905
00:33:58,389 --> 00:33:56,480
is actually it's a secret issue because

906
00:33:59,430 --> 00:33:58,399
i just saw this the other day

907
00:34:03,509 --> 00:33:59,440
um

908
00:34:04,549 --> 00:34:03,519
i there is a great black mirror episode

909
00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:04,559
um

910
00:34:09,190 --> 00:34:06,720
and i saw it a long time ago and i

911
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:09,200
thought wow whoever did this

912
00:34:12,230 --> 00:34:10,720
red heidegger

913
00:34:13,909 --> 00:34:12,240
so you know martin

914
00:34:16,629 --> 00:34:13,919
wrote a lot about so i use martin

915
00:34:18,149 --> 00:34:16,639
heidegger in american cosmic and a lot

916
00:34:20,790 --> 00:34:18,159
of my work and

917
00:34:21,750 --> 00:34:20,800
philosophers generally hate the guy

918
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:21,760
um

919
00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:24,240
but he's fascinating because

920
00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:26,320
he was another one of these people that

921
00:34:30,230 --> 00:34:28,159
kind of predicts

922
00:34:33,190 --> 00:34:30,240
what technology what what technology

923
00:34:34,869 --> 00:34:33,200
means right and how it's not you know

924
00:34:36,069 --> 00:34:34,879
people tend to think that they could put

925
00:34:37,990 --> 00:34:36,079
it down

926
00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:38,000
and that they're not somehow

927
00:34:41,990 --> 00:34:40,800
in it already you know we really are we

928
00:34:46,149 --> 00:34:42,000
can't escape

929
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:46,159
um and so he saw this right in the 1930s

930
00:34:50,869 --> 00:34:48,480
and 40s and he said whoa this is going

931
00:34:51,909 --> 00:34:50,879
to be like the catholic church was

932
00:34:53,909 --> 00:34:51,919
for

933
00:34:56,310 --> 00:34:53,919
you know western culture

934
00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:56,320
this is it it's a new era basically

935
00:35:01,270 --> 00:34:58,480
called an epoch it's a new epic right

936
00:35:03,349 --> 00:35:01,280
yep yep so um

937
00:35:04,950 --> 00:35:03,359
okay so in that sense

938
00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:04,960
you can't put it down it's not you know

939
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:06,720
it's prometheus right so it's like the

940
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:09,359
myth of prometheus alive right now okay

941
00:35:14,069 --> 00:35:11,280
so um

942
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:14,079
yeah i don't necessarily think that

943
00:35:18,790 --> 00:35:17,200
there's a dualism yeah that that that

944
00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:18,800
your question has an assumption of a

945
00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:19,920
dualism

946
00:35:24,310 --> 00:35:20,720
right

947
00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:24,320
so it's it's separate from us sure yeah

948
00:35:28,069 --> 00:35:26,240
i don't know if it is of when when we

949
00:35:30,470 --> 00:35:28,079
say it there's another assumption that

950
00:35:32,950 --> 00:35:30,480
is one thing correct that's right the

951
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:32,960
phenomena is one thing i mean i frankly

952
00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:35,920
think that whatever goes on at um

953
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:38,560
skinwalker ranch is absolutely different

954
00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:41,359
than tic tacs yeah yeah they're not the

955
00:35:47,349 --> 00:35:44,640
same thing and both not connected

956
00:35:50,470 --> 00:35:47,359
what's that no connection

957
00:35:52,870 --> 00:35:50,480
um i in my opinion

958
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:55,030
no i would say no

959
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:56,400
fair enough

960
00:36:00,150 --> 00:35:58,000
there might be i mean i could be

961
00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:00,160
completely wrong though but what i'm

962
00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:07,109
you know tic tac is not space i mean

963
00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:09,359
when i say space based it's not

964
00:36:12,390 --> 00:36:10,640
a place

965
00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:12,400
where a skinwalker ranch is like

966
00:36:17,109 --> 00:36:15,440
localized to a specific place which by

967
00:36:18,069 --> 00:36:17,119
the way i think is pretty interesting

968
00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:18,079
because

969
00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:20,480
when i did go to the vatican and tyler

970
00:36:25,270 --> 00:36:22,960
and i did a lot of assessment of

971
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:25,280
uh events kind of like not just like

972
00:36:31,750 --> 00:36:28,320
virgin mary apparitions but also uh

973
00:36:33,589 --> 00:36:31,760
alleged ufo contacts and what we did was

974
00:36:37,109 --> 00:36:33,599
we did a lot of like analysis of the

975
00:36:38,829 --> 00:36:37,119
places like metals in the ground

976
00:36:40,630 --> 00:36:38,839
um you know

977
00:36:41,829 --> 00:36:40,640
uh

978
00:36:43,990 --> 00:36:41,839
meridian

979
00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:44,000
stuff like that right so

980
00:36:46,870 --> 00:36:45,200
um

981
00:36:49,190 --> 00:36:46,880
and what we found was pretty interesting

982
00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:49,200
we found that there were specific

983
00:36:55,109 --> 00:36:52,320
there were patterns to those places

984
00:36:56,870 --> 00:36:55,119
so i think that you know space when i

985
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:56,880
say space-based i don't mean like space

986
00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:00,000
up there but a place an actual location

987
00:37:05,910 --> 00:37:02,720
right i think that some locations are

988
00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:07,030
yeah

989
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:09,760
i i was gonna say uh i agree with you by

990
00:37:13,750 --> 00:37:11,280
the way i i

991
00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:13,760
hold tic tac in a very special place for

992
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:15,200
the uh

993
00:37:19,030 --> 00:37:17,760
sort of aviation related reasons things

994
00:37:21,430 --> 00:37:19,040
that it can do

995
00:37:24,390 --> 00:37:21,440
and how it does it and i know how we do

996
00:37:26,069 --> 00:37:24,400
it and i saw what that did and i

997
00:37:27,190 --> 00:37:26,079
can think in my mind what would it take

998
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:27,200
to make

999
00:37:32,150 --> 00:37:30,000
a craft that looks like that do what it

1000
00:37:33,750 --> 00:37:32,160
did so that all aside

1001
00:37:36,710 --> 00:37:33,760
grant cameron though when listening to

1002
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:36,720
him yesterday he uh he said to me that

1003
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:38,640
or not to me excuse me he was on his

1004
00:37:44,069 --> 00:37:41,520
podcast and and theorizes that there is

1005
00:37:45,510 --> 00:37:44,079
a that everything's connected so i

1006
00:37:46,870 --> 00:37:45,520
didn't think they were connected to me

1007
00:37:48,630 --> 00:37:46,880
it seems like that there's a certain

1008
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:48,640
energy uh

1009
00:37:53,190 --> 00:37:50,560
at skinwalker

1010
00:37:55,190 --> 00:37:53,200
that's in and of itself is a different

1011
00:37:57,990 --> 00:37:55,200
sort of a paranormal supernatural

1012
00:37:59,349 --> 00:37:58,000
phenomenon and then in in with tic-tac

1013
00:38:01,190 --> 00:37:59,359
we're dealing with an intelligence

1014
00:38:04,950 --> 00:38:01,200
that's either born

1015
00:38:06,069 --> 00:38:04,960
of here or elsewhere you know who knows

1016
00:38:07,670 --> 00:38:06,079
um

1017
00:38:11,109 --> 00:38:07,680
the other question

1018
00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:11,119
i was gonna ask you so i'm gonna let

1019
00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:12,880
l i'm gonna let nathan jump back into

1020
00:38:15,349 --> 00:38:13,920
and i'll see

1021
00:38:17,349 --> 00:38:15,359
because i think it was related to the

1022
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:17,359
last thing that you guys just talked

1023
00:38:20,230 --> 00:38:18,720
about i'll let you guys jump back in and

1024
00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:20,240
then if i remember it i'll come back

1025
00:38:25,190 --> 00:38:22,480
yeah please do um are you familiar with

1026
00:38:26,950 --> 00:38:25,200
the philip experiment it's uh this uh

1027
00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:26,960
paranormal i think it was a bunch of

1028
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:28,480
canadian uh

1029
00:38:32,310 --> 00:38:30,400
folks that were paranoid they sat

1030
00:38:34,150 --> 00:38:32,320
together and created a fictional person

1031
00:38:35,829 --> 00:38:34,160
and then it ended up i am aware of that

1032
00:38:38,310 --> 00:38:35,839
that sounds some answers

1033
00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:38,320
i don't think i'd want to try that

1034
00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:40,960
right well i i come back to that

1035
00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:43,680
idea quite quite often and i wonder to

1036
00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:45,599
what degree

1037
00:38:50,150 --> 00:38:46,400
do

1038
00:38:52,150 --> 00:38:50,160
uh

1039
00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:52,160
in a collectivist aspect you know not

1040
00:38:54,950 --> 00:38:53,839
just maybe one individual consciousness

1041
00:38:57,190 --> 00:38:54,960
although we've talked about already

1042
00:38:59,750 --> 00:38:57,200
about how an individual consciousness

1043
00:39:01,589 --> 00:38:59,760
may be able to tap into this whatever it

1044
00:39:03,670 --> 00:39:01,599
is but when you collectivize it when

1045
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:03,680
they have more than one mind where two

1046
00:39:07,349 --> 00:39:04,960
or three are gathered to borrow a

1047
00:39:13,270 --> 00:39:07,359
christian phrase

1048
00:39:17,750 --> 00:39:15,829
giving birth to you know something that

1049
00:39:19,750 --> 00:39:17,760
that is almost like a gregoric you know

1050
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:19,760
it's like it lives apart from the minds

1051
00:39:23,829 --> 00:39:22,960
that themselves and is its own thing

1052
00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:23,839
right

1053
00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:25,520
in i think it's tibetan buddhism that

1054
00:39:30,069 --> 00:39:28,720
has the tulpas that um people create

1055
00:39:31,589 --> 00:39:30,079
these these

1056
00:39:33,670 --> 00:39:31,599
thought forms that then exist

1057
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:33,680
independently of them so they're in

1058
00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:35,520
religious traditions there's some you

1059
00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:37,520
know there is this tradition

1060
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:38,880
um

1061
00:39:44,069 --> 00:39:41,280
i absolutely think that you know we

1062
00:39:47,430 --> 00:39:44,079
aren't just minds we're body minds right

1063
00:39:50,470 --> 00:39:47,440
so i think that if you get i mean

1064
00:39:52,950 --> 00:39:50,480
there is a lot of when

1065
00:39:54,950 --> 00:39:52,960
i felt it many

1066
00:39:56,550 --> 00:39:54,960
millions and millions of people

1067
00:39:59,109 --> 00:39:56,560
billions most likely

1068
00:40:01,589 --> 00:39:59,119
um you know they they if you go to like

1069
00:40:03,510 --> 00:40:01,599
let's take i just taught a class and we

1070
00:40:06,550 --> 00:40:03,520
spent some time talking about

1071
00:40:08,790 --> 00:40:06,560
um the goddess festivals in india right

1072
00:40:10,710 --> 00:40:08,800
where millions of people people could be

1073
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:10,720
at these festivals all

1074
00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:13,760
you know worshiping durga or or some

1075
00:40:19,990 --> 00:40:17,760
feminine aspect of brahma right and

1076
00:40:23,349 --> 00:40:20,000
there is energy there i mean you can

1077
00:40:25,910 --> 00:40:23,359
feel it and you know so um yes i've been

1078
00:40:29,109 --> 00:40:25,920
in many gatherings of different kinds of

1079
00:40:30,870 --> 00:40:29,119
people um either in churches or

1080
00:40:32,870 --> 00:40:30,880
you know when i was younger in

1081
00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:32,880
california new age gatherings where you

1082
00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:35,200
know there's a thousand people and you

1083
00:40:40,069 --> 00:40:36,880
know um

1084
00:40:42,790 --> 00:40:40,079
i was a person who um

1085
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:42,800
was is old enough to have attended one

1086
00:40:47,190 --> 00:40:44,720
grateful dead concert right at the end

1087
00:40:48,630 --> 00:40:47,200
right where you know before jerry garcia

1088
00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:48,640
and and um

1089
00:40:53,190 --> 00:40:50,960
i was dragged to it and then oh my

1090
00:40:54,470 --> 00:40:53,200
goodness it was so amazing that i

1091
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:54,480
couldn't believe it i was like oh i have

1092
00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:56,400
to do this again and then jerry garcia

1093
00:41:01,750 --> 00:40:59,520
you know passes away so um

1094
00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:01,760
yeah i mean i

1095
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:03,599
that's for sure that that absolutely

1096
00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:05,520
happened so

1097
00:41:08,950 --> 00:41:07,040
you know i think that i mean that's why

1098
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:08,960
i think that right now technology and

1099
00:41:14,550 --> 00:41:12,240
ufo belief is so fascinating because i

1100
00:41:15,990 --> 00:41:14,560
mean what i'm trying to basically say

1101
00:41:18,790 --> 00:41:16,000
but i didn't i don't think i really

1102
00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:18,800
articulated it loudly enough is that

1103
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:20,240
we're going to be having these

1104
00:41:25,990 --> 00:41:23,280
experiences now and mass because we're

1105
00:41:27,990 --> 00:41:26,000
all going to be watching it on tv we're

1106
00:41:29,670 --> 00:41:28,000
going to be watching it on our computer

1107
00:41:31,589 --> 00:41:29,680
screen we're going to be watching it on

1108
00:41:34,710 --> 00:41:31,599
our phones all of us

1109
00:41:36,309 --> 00:41:34,720
what is that going to do to us right

1110
00:41:39,270 --> 00:41:36,319
buy toilet paper

1111
00:41:41,270 --> 00:41:39,280
um i i just remember i i just remembered

1112
00:41:42,630 --> 00:41:41,280
what it was it was nathan's prior

1113
00:41:45,109 --> 00:41:42,640
question

1114
00:41:46,309 --> 00:41:45,119
i thought and nathan please correct me

1115
00:41:47,829 --> 00:41:46,319
if i'm wrong because this is kind of

1116
00:41:50,550 --> 00:41:47,839
like to you and then it'll be to dr

1117
00:41:53,510 --> 00:41:50,560
pisoka okay sure i think that i thought

1118
00:41:56,710 --> 00:41:53,520
you were asking her if

1119
00:41:59,109 --> 00:41:56,720
an intelligence is is having an effect

1120
00:42:00,950 --> 00:41:59,119
to make us act a certain way

1121
00:42:02,790 --> 00:42:00,960
i thought that's what you were asking

1122
00:42:04,950 --> 00:42:02,800
rather than

1123
00:42:09,349 --> 00:42:04,960
the ai aspect of it i

1124
00:42:10,550 --> 00:42:09,359
okay that's like the cia absolutely

1125
00:42:12,309 --> 00:42:10,560
no i mean

1126
00:42:14,470 --> 00:42:12,319
did i have your question right nathan or

1127
00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:14,480
was that yeah so right okay i guess

1128
00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:15,760
you're talking about a non-human

1129
00:42:19,990 --> 00:42:17,440
intelligence correct yeah non-human

1130
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:20,000
intelligence that that may

1131
00:42:25,349 --> 00:42:22,800
serve as a a lure

1132
00:42:27,510 --> 00:42:25,359
like a like an angler fish you know that

1133
00:42:28,309 --> 00:42:27,520
is that is attracting us to it

1134
00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:28,319
and

1135
00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:30,960
for us it feels like we are making the

1136
00:42:34,390 --> 00:42:32,560
discoveries you know we are creating the

1137
00:42:35,990 --> 00:42:34,400
technology yeah even if they are

1138
00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:36,000
synchronistic or even if they come out

1139
00:42:39,670 --> 00:42:37,920
of the ether or whatever we have the

1140
00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:39,680
sense in which these are good things

1141
00:42:43,349 --> 00:42:41,280
that we are discovering and they are

1142
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:43,359
they're good for us generally but what

1143
00:42:48,390 --> 00:42:46,079
i'm getting at is is it perhaps are we

1144
00:42:50,230 --> 00:42:48,400
perhaps creating the individual puzzle

1145
00:42:51,510 --> 00:42:50,240
pieces that once

1146
00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:51,520
finally

1147
00:42:55,589 --> 00:42:52,800
you know complete

1148
00:42:58,390 --> 00:42:55,599
unlocks you know sort of a a a

1149
00:42:59,670 --> 00:42:58,400
manifestation of whatever that nhi

1150
00:43:01,750 --> 00:42:59,680
happens to be

1151
00:43:03,990 --> 00:43:01,760
uh that is more real than it is now in

1152
00:43:06,390 --> 00:43:04,000
other words it needs us as its eyes ears

1153
00:43:08,309 --> 00:43:06,400
arms and legs for it to be manifest in

1154
00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:08,319
the world

1155
00:43:15,270 --> 00:43:09,839
yeah this sounds like a whitney street

1156
00:43:18,550 --> 00:43:16,870
yeah there's a lot of laughing on this

1157
00:43:19,510 --> 00:43:18,560
show so it's all

1158
00:43:21,990 --> 00:43:19,520
yeah

1159
00:43:24,230 --> 00:43:22,000
it's part of the game like

1160
00:43:26,950 --> 00:43:24,240
that he says that the more we recognize

1161
00:43:28,230 --> 00:43:26,960
it the more it's going to

1162
00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:28,240
be around

1163
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:29,520
or the visitors he calls them the

1164
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:31,599
visitors yeah the more we recognize them

1165
00:43:35,109 --> 00:43:33,280
the more they will be around um if

1166
00:43:37,670 --> 00:43:35,119
there's a saturation point we must reach

1167
00:43:39,670 --> 00:43:37,680
at which it becomes more uh present or

1168
00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:39,680
real to the rest of us

1169
00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:42,960
yeah i think that um this okay so

1170
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:45,359
um let me think about that see the

1171
00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:46,560
podcasts are kind of hard for me

1172
00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:47,839
sometimes because people ask me these

1173
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:49,440
questions i'm so deep and then i'm

1174
00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:51,440
supposed to answer them and i was like i

1175
00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:57,430
so it's not like i haven't thought about

1176
00:44:01,030 --> 00:43:58,800
that one but

1177
00:44:03,109 --> 00:44:01,040
i guess that it's been a while since

1178
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:03,119
i've thought about it so

1179
00:44:05,349 --> 00:44:04,000
um

1180
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:05,359
i guess it gets for me while you're

1181
00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:06,640
thinking about it gets me the issues of

1182
00:44:09,990 --> 00:44:08,400
trust right so i have and dj we've

1183
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:10,000
talked about this before if we're

1184
00:44:13,990 --> 00:44:11,920
dealing with a non-human intelligence

1185
00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:14,000
and let's take a game of chess right so

1186
00:44:18,230 --> 00:44:16,079
they are let's say they're they have a

1187
00:44:20,309 --> 00:44:18,240
greater knowledge of reality technology

1188
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:20,319
whatever than we do and we're playing a

1189
00:44:23,829 --> 00:44:21,680
game of chess well i understand the

1190
00:44:26,550 --> 00:44:23,839
rules they understand the rules but they

1191
00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:26,560
understand me maybe perhaps way better

1192
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:28,079
than i understand myself or they

1193
00:44:31,990 --> 00:44:30,000
understand uh the nature of the chess

1194
00:44:33,589 --> 00:44:32,000
board or the pieces or they have more

1195
00:44:34,950 --> 00:44:33,599
information it's not in other words it's

1196
00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:34,960
a game we're not playing on equal

1197
00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:37,119
footing and so what are the things that

1198
00:44:40,150 --> 00:44:38,800
i would be looking for in this

1199
00:44:43,109 --> 00:44:40,160
relationship

1200
00:44:45,430 --> 00:44:43,119
for me to trust that whatever it's

1201
00:44:47,589 --> 00:44:45,440
offering me or whatever thing it is

1202
00:44:48,829 --> 00:44:47,599
doing on the board is something that i

1203
00:44:51,910 --> 00:44:48,839
can

1204
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:51,920
uh you know have faith in or trust in

1205
00:44:54,790 --> 00:44:53,280
that that it is

1206
00:44:56,550 --> 00:44:54,800
it is part of the rules that we have

1207
00:44:58,150 --> 00:44:56,560
agreed on and that it's actually you

1208
00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:58,160
know part of the game and not some other

1209
00:45:02,550 --> 00:45:00,480
game that it's playing that i'm gonna

1210
00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:02,560
i'm completely unaware of how do you

1211
00:45:08,309 --> 00:45:04,400
know you can trust it it's basically

1212
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:10,470
i think you guys can answer that

1213
00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:13,520
in contact if you're making if we're if

1214
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:14,880
i think what he's saying if we make

1215
00:45:19,829 --> 00:45:17,520
contact nathan's wanting to know how do

1216
00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:19,839
we know if there's if we make contact

1217
00:45:24,150 --> 00:45:21,920
that the interaction is genuine and that

1218
00:45:25,910 --> 00:45:24,160
we're not being gamed and not aware of

1219
00:45:27,589 --> 00:45:25,920
it how do we know we can trust something

1220
00:45:30,309 --> 00:45:27,599
that's so much more intelligent i think

1221
00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:30,319
that's what he's saying yeah okay so i

1222
00:45:34,230 --> 00:45:33,040
can only give you some answers through

1223
00:45:37,109 --> 00:45:34,240
some things that have happened to me

1224
00:45:39,190 --> 00:45:37,119
like some experiences that i've had

1225
00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:39,200
um

1226
00:45:43,510 --> 00:45:41,920
i don't look for that okay

1227
00:45:46,470 --> 00:45:43,520
and

1228
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:46,480
once i once my book came out i've had

1229
00:45:50,950 --> 00:45:47,760
like you know

1230
00:45:53,109 --> 00:45:50,960
whatever a lot of people

1231
00:45:54,870 --> 00:45:53,119
tell me you know um especially one

1232
00:45:57,270 --> 00:45:54,880
person in particular

1233
00:45:59,670 --> 00:45:57,280
um who was a good seems a good friend

1234
00:46:02,150 --> 00:45:59,680
i've never met the person but seems a

1235
00:46:03,109 --> 00:46:02,160
good friend of several people who i know

1236
00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:03,119
and trust

1237
00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:05,280
and so this person

1238
00:46:08,710 --> 00:46:07,760
sent me a few things where

1239
00:46:10,550 --> 00:46:08,720
it

1240
00:46:12,470 --> 00:46:10,560
the person said to me

1241
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:12,480
you can check me out i'm i'm a friend of

1242
00:46:16,309 --> 00:46:14,880
so-and-so and so and so i'm cool kind of

1243
00:46:17,589 --> 00:46:16,319
thing you know and i was like okay so i

1244
00:46:19,589 --> 00:46:17,599
checked i checked that person out and

1245
00:46:22,870 --> 00:46:19,599
i'm like okay i'll correspond with this

1246
00:46:25,270 --> 00:46:22,880
person and then the they sent me um a

1247
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:25,280
couple of things where they said you can

1248
00:46:29,109 --> 00:46:27,680
actually con be in contact with the

1249
00:46:30,069 --> 00:46:29,119
phenomenon

1250
00:46:36,230 --> 00:46:30,079
and

1251
00:46:38,069 --> 00:46:36,240
want to be in contact with right yeah no

1252
00:46:40,790 --> 00:46:38,079
thanks

1253
00:46:42,790 --> 00:46:40,800
i'm kind of busy this afternoon

1254
00:46:44,230 --> 00:46:42,800
i'll check my calendar yeah i've been a

1255
00:46:46,309 --> 00:46:44,240
lot of people who are in contact with

1256
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:46,319
phenomenal i just don't want that right

1257
00:46:50,790 --> 00:46:48,560
now okay sure and so um

1258
00:46:52,550 --> 00:46:50,800
so then you know the person didn't give

1259
00:46:54,550 --> 00:46:52,560
up and kept sending me this stuff and

1260
00:46:57,030 --> 00:46:54,560
then sent me something that said

1261
00:46:58,710 --> 00:46:57,040
you must agree to this contact

1262
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:58,720
and so i just started to delete

1263
00:47:02,390 --> 00:47:01,040
everything it finally blocked everything

1264
00:47:05,030 --> 00:47:02,400
now you have to understand this person

1265
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:05,040
is among my friends right so

1266
00:47:09,990 --> 00:47:07,200
my friends and i said to them

1267
00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:10,000
i am not quite sure that this is only up

1268
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:12,640
and up yeah and they were like whoa this

1269
00:47:18,069 --> 00:47:14,960
person is so cool how can you think that

1270
00:47:21,910 --> 00:47:20,150
i'm just not i'm just going to not try

1271
00:47:24,710 --> 00:47:21,920
to contact i'm not going to skin vodka

1272
00:47:26,549 --> 00:47:24,720
ranch you know if a person has seen orbs

1273
00:47:27,349 --> 00:47:26,559
i'm not going to go check it out you

1274
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:27,359
know

1275
00:47:31,589 --> 00:47:29,920
and so um i hate to tell you this but

1276
00:47:34,230 --> 00:47:31,599
you know people think that maybe i'm the

1277
00:47:37,349 --> 00:47:34,240
person who's in contact no i'm not do i

1278
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:37,359
want to be in contact no i don't

1279
00:47:41,430 --> 00:47:39,440
have you worn garlic around your neck

1280
00:47:42,870 --> 00:47:41,440
for the express purpose of keeping them

1281
00:47:44,710 --> 00:47:42,880
away

1282
00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:44,720
that i prayed before i went to the

1283
00:47:50,549 --> 00:47:48,400
donations i remember okay

1284
00:47:53,910 --> 00:47:50,559
it's true i saw what uh

1285
00:47:55,589 --> 00:47:53,920
i saw what you know james's research he

1286
00:47:58,390 --> 00:47:55,599
showed tyler and i the research before

1287
00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:58,400
we went and i mean it was terrifying

1288
00:48:02,870 --> 00:48:00,800
and he is a person who is wanting to

1289
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:02,880
create something like a drug that will

1290
00:48:09,270 --> 00:48:06,480
interface so that we it can only be in

1291
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:09,280
contact with humans on human terms

1292
00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:11,760
instead of harm so you've got to see

1293
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:15,040
there's a lot there that's um

1294
00:48:19,349 --> 00:48:17,040
don't want contact like you know a lot

1295
00:48:20,390 --> 00:48:19,359
of the people and some people are in

1296
00:48:22,790 --> 00:48:20,400
contact

1297
00:48:24,790 --> 00:48:22,800
seem fairly out of their minds but seem

1298
00:48:26,309 --> 00:48:24,800
to enjoy it

1299
00:48:28,069 --> 00:48:26,319
don't want that either

1300
00:48:30,630 --> 00:48:28,079
you're not going with anjali out to the

1301
00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:30,640
mountain and trek out there and do that

1302
00:48:32,790 --> 00:48:32,000
eight foot

1303
00:48:34,069 --> 00:48:32,800
okay

1304
00:48:36,390 --> 00:48:34,079
you'll be happy to study it after the

1305
00:48:38,549 --> 00:48:36,400
fact but uh no i'm not gonna do that i'm

1306
00:48:40,230 --> 00:48:38,559
not even gonna say

1307
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:40,240
that's great well it makes me think of

1308
00:48:42,630 --> 00:48:41,200
um

1309
00:48:43,750 --> 00:48:42,640
i'll say this then we want to bring on a

1310
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:43,760
guest

1311
00:48:47,670 --> 00:48:45,520
questionnaire but i don't know if you've

1312
00:48:49,589 --> 00:48:47,680
read the three body problem

1313
00:48:51,589 --> 00:48:49,599
and i i forget the name of the author

1314
00:48:52,790 --> 00:48:51,599
but it's a chinese author

1315
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:52,800
it's an excellent book it's science

1316
00:48:56,069 --> 00:48:54,880
fiction but i'm not trying to spoil too

1317
00:48:57,109 --> 00:48:56,079
much of the book but essentially part of

1318
00:48:59,829 --> 00:48:57,119
the book is

1319
00:49:01,750 --> 00:48:59,839
they discover that uh some non-human

1320
00:49:03,109 --> 00:49:01,760
intelligence has essentially kind of

1321
00:49:06,390 --> 00:49:03,119
infiltrated

1322
00:49:08,630 --> 00:49:06,400
uh the earth's uh atmosphere or or space

1323
00:49:11,190 --> 00:49:08,640
or reality in a way that it makes it

1324
00:49:13,109 --> 00:49:11,200
very hard for humans to

1325
00:49:15,030 --> 00:49:13,119
know that it's there so it can kind of

1326
00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:15,040
like see what they're doing and observe

1327
00:49:19,109 --> 00:49:17,520
and and so they they create an entire

1328
00:49:21,910 --> 00:49:19,119
program

1329
00:49:24,150 --> 00:49:21,920
designed specifically to obfuscate what

1330
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:24,160
they are really doing so that this

1331
00:49:29,030 --> 00:49:26,640
intelligence is unaware of the schemes

1332
00:49:30,950 --> 00:49:29,040
that the humans are doing to try to

1333
00:49:33,190 --> 00:49:30,960
uh protect themselves but essentially

1334
00:49:34,549 --> 00:49:33,200
like they're on the way like they're

1335
00:49:35,829 --> 00:49:34,559
they're light years away they're on the

1336
00:49:38,309 --> 00:49:35,839
way we know how long it's gonna take

1337
00:49:40,390 --> 00:49:38,319
them to get into our our galaxy whatever

1338
00:49:42,230 --> 00:49:40,400
we have time to prepare but they are

1339
00:49:44,390 --> 00:49:42,240
observing us as they're approaching so

1340
00:49:47,430 --> 00:49:44,400
we create this entire structures to like

1341
00:49:49,030 --> 00:49:47,440
you know juke it i don't know

1342
00:49:50,630 --> 00:49:49,040
wow yeah

1343
00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:50,640
sometimes when i'm overweight i feel

1344
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:52,480
like i have a three-body problem i don't

1345
00:49:55,990 --> 00:49:54,720
know that i want to read this boom

1346
00:49:58,309 --> 00:49:56,000
but

1347
00:50:00,230 --> 00:49:58,319
there you go yeah so about this trust

1348
00:50:02,790 --> 00:50:00,240
thing um no

1349
00:50:04,549 --> 00:50:02,800
i'm not gonna trust it right sorry

1350
00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:04,559
you're on board so that it's really

1351
00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:06,000
interesting because nathan and i have

1352
00:50:10,230 --> 00:50:07,920
been talking about his hypothesis on the

1353
00:50:12,390 --> 00:50:10,240
phone for like a month and we brought it

1354
00:50:15,190 --> 00:50:12,400
up and i'm sure that he's been wanting

1355
00:50:17,030 --> 00:50:15,200
to ask you this question so yeah oh yeah

1356
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:17,040
i hope i haven't dashed your hopes or

1357
00:50:21,030 --> 00:50:19,440
anything no he's an agree he's in 100

1358
00:50:22,790 --> 00:50:21,040
agreement with no i mean like i want to

1359
00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:22,800
talk to for example i'd like to talk to

1360
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:24,400
some game theorists right i would like

1361
00:50:27,109 --> 00:50:26,160
to talk to the to people who think about

1362
00:50:29,349 --> 00:50:27,119
these

1363
00:50:32,950 --> 00:50:29,359
uh asynchronous or uh

1364
00:50:35,750 --> 00:50:32,960
asymmetrical relationships and how

1365
00:50:37,589 --> 00:50:35,760
we would be able to establish trust in

1366
00:50:39,910 --> 00:50:37,599
asymmetrical relationships because that

1367
00:50:41,750 --> 00:50:39,920
will be the position that we have with

1368
00:50:44,470 --> 00:50:41,760
whatever this happens to be that is

1369
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:46,549
it's like the 92 dream team when they

1370
00:50:51,510 --> 00:50:49,040
played angola in basketball asymmetric

1371
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:51,520
relationship no trust in the in the

1372
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:53,359
after you know locker room party that

1373
00:50:57,030 --> 00:50:55,680
they had no completely yeah

1374
00:50:58,069 --> 00:50:57,040
well yeah so why don't we uh we'll

1375
00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:58,079
switch gears real quick we've got a

1376
00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:59,760
person that we'd like to bring on uh

1377
00:51:03,510 --> 00:51:01,520
who's a fan of the show and they wanted

1378
00:51:05,990 --> 00:51:03,520
to ask a question um and so mark i'm

1379
00:51:08,710 --> 00:51:06,000
gonna put you on on stage real quick uh

1380
00:51:10,790 --> 00:51:08,720
with that hey what's going on mark

1381
00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:10,800
hey guys how's it going good how you

1382
00:51:15,109 --> 00:51:13,359
doing brother welcome really well thanks

1383
00:51:17,109 --> 00:51:15,119
thanks for having me

1384
00:51:19,030 --> 00:51:17,119
pleasure man

1385
00:51:21,510 --> 00:51:19,040
pleasure to make your acquaintance

1386
00:51:23,030 --> 00:51:21,520
yeah um i'm actually in the process of

1387
00:51:25,589 --> 00:51:23,040
reading your book right now american

1388
00:51:27,190 --> 00:51:25,599
cosmic and uh congratulations it's a

1389
00:51:29,270 --> 00:51:27,200
really fantastic book

1390
00:51:31,670 --> 00:51:29,280
um

1391
00:51:33,510 --> 00:51:31,680
i i highly recommend it for those

1392
00:51:34,390 --> 00:51:33,520
that haven't read it you definitely

1393
00:51:36,710 --> 00:51:34,400
should

1394
00:51:40,710 --> 00:51:36,720
um i'm about halfway through it right

1395
00:51:42,390 --> 00:51:40,720
now and um i have a question for you

1396
00:51:44,549 --> 00:51:42,400
um

1397
00:51:47,510 --> 00:51:44,559
it seems like your your hypothesis your

1398
00:51:51,349 --> 00:51:47,520
working hypothesis is that we're at the

1399
00:51:53,349 --> 00:51:51,359
precipice of having a new religion um

1400
00:51:57,190 --> 00:51:53,359
a scientific religion

1401
00:51:58,549 --> 00:51:57,200
that includes ufos uaps uh whatever

1402
00:52:00,870 --> 00:51:58,559
broadly

1403
00:52:03,190 --> 00:52:00,880
they may represent

1404
00:52:04,870 --> 00:52:03,200
my question for you is

1405
00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:04,880
what is the

1406
00:52:10,309 --> 00:52:05,760
what

1407
00:52:13,270 --> 00:52:10,319
the black swan moment who's the

1408
00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:13,280
progenitor that's going to move this

1409
00:52:17,589 --> 00:52:14,319
from

1410
00:52:20,150 --> 00:52:17,599
being something that's talked about to

1411
00:52:23,270 --> 00:52:20,160
a full-fledged religion so we see that

1412
00:52:26,069 --> 00:52:23,280
obviously in christianity with jesus um

1413
00:52:27,270 --> 00:52:26,079
you know directly with yahweh and

1414
00:52:31,589 --> 00:52:27,280
judaism

1415
00:52:34,309 --> 00:52:31,599
uh moses um you know we have you know

1416
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:34,319
you know siddhartha uh gautama

1417
00:52:39,109 --> 00:52:37,760
um you know so what who do you believe

1418
00:52:41,190 --> 00:52:39,119
uh would be

1419
00:52:43,910 --> 00:52:41,200
um

1420
00:52:46,870 --> 00:52:43,920
significant enough to move this to the

1421
00:52:49,430 --> 00:52:46,880
threshold and then pass the threshold of

1422
00:52:51,589 --> 00:52:49,440
being a full-fledged religion

1423
00:52:53,430 --> 00:52:51,599
great question okay

1424
00:52:55,589 --> 00:52:53,440
so what i'm going to ask you to do

1425
00:52:56,710 --> 00:52:55,599
though is to

1426
00:52:58,549 --> 00:52:56,720
bracket

1427
00:52:59,349 --> 00:52:58,559
all of those

1428
00:53:01,190 --> 00:52:59,359
um

1429
00:53:03,510 --> 00:53:01,200
all of what you've learned

1430
00:53:04,710 --> 00:53:03,520
about religion right because you've

1431
00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:04,720
talked about

1432
00:53:07,510 --> 00:53:06,640
religions that have been

1433
00:53:09,829 --> 00:53:07,520
that

1434
00:53:10,630 --> 00:53:09,839
emerged from personalities

1435
00:53:13,030 --> 00:53:10,640
okay

1436
00:53:14,390 --> 00:53:13,040
and not so hinduism didn't really emerge

1437
00:53:17,829 --> 00:53:14,400
from a personality

1438
00:53:20,790 --> 00:53:17,839
and so not all religions do they're not

1439
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:20,800
they're not focused on you know we've

1440
00:53:25,270 --> 00:53:22,960
got the major religions like islam

1441
00:53:28,549 --> 00:53:25,280
buddhism christianity

1442
00:53:31,430 --> 00:53:28,559
obviously all focused on one person um

1443
00:53:34,150 --> 00:53:31,440
but this is this is a new way we're in a

1444
00:53:36,630 --> 00:53:34,160
new epoch right so as heidegger said and

1445
00:53:39,829 --> 00:53:36,640
we're new we're in a new game-changing

1446
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:39,839
infrastructure and so here i have i have

1447
00:53:43,510 --> 00:53:41,200
that person

1448
00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:43,520
it's this right here

1449
00:53:46,470 --> 00:53:44,400
okay

1450
00:53:48,870 --> 00:53:46,480
it's this

1451
00:53:51,030 --> 00:53:48,880
is what is gonna is is the game changer

1452
00:53:54,150 --> 00:53:51,040
and what i mean by that is that kind of

1453
00:53:56,470 --> 00:53:54,160
what i talked about earlier is that

1454
00:53:59,030 --> 00:53:56,480
a lot of people are convinced when they

1455
00:54:01,589 --> 00:53:59,040
have these amazing experiences and

1456
00:54:04,069 --> 00:54:01,599
events like a contact event okay when a

1457
00:54:06,790 --> 00:54:04,079
person experiences say

1458
00:54:09,910 --> 00:54:06,800
the virgin mary coming down like a

1459
00:54:12,150 --> 00:54:09,920
herophony okay so the the god or the

1460
00:54:14,309 --> 00:54:12,160
goddess comes down to earth

1461
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:14,319
and people witness it and it's this

1462
00:54:17,990 --> 00:54:15,599
amazing

1463
00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:18,000
um hierophany which is

1464
00:54:22,549 --> 00:54:20,880
sacred event on earth then that people

1465
00:54:25,750 --> 00:54:22,559
talk about and that's what becomes kind

1466
00:54:28,549 --> 00:54:25,760
of religion okay so um right now what

1467
00:54:31,829 --> 00:54:28,559
we're all doing is we're all witnessing

1468
00:54:34,630 --> 00:54:31,839
the galileo project we're all witnessing

1469
00:54:36,950 --> 00:54:34,640
the new york times breakthroughs we're

1470
00:54:39,589 --> 00:54:36,960
all witnessing in my own little way

1471
00:54:40,950 --> 00:54:39,599
american cosmic right and what happened

1472
00:54:43,349 --> 00:54:40,960
to tyler and james and we're all

1473
00:54:45,910 --> 00:54:43,359
witnessing this through

1474
00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:45,920
this podcast on our computer on our

1475
00:54:51,829 --> 00:54:47,920
phone through

1476
00:54:54,230 --> 00:54:51,839
um media okay it's media itself and we

1477
00:54:56,390 --> 00:54:54,240
tend not to give it agency

1478
00:55:00,309 --> 00:54:56,400
we tend just to think of it as a

1479
00:55:03,349 --> 00:55:00,319
byproduct or a tool but it is it so it

1480
00:55:05,670 --> 00:55:03,359
is the jesus yeah so it's the medium is

1481
00:55:08,309 --> 00:55:05,680
the the medium and the proliferance of

1482
00:55:09,990 --> 00:55:08,319
it is is the jesus because it is on

1483
00:55:11,750 --> 00:55:10,000
those all these different devices yeah

1484
00:55:13,990 --> 00:55:11,760
because we're all experiencing it in

1485
00:55:16,150 --> 00:55:14,000
real time at the same time so we're all

1486
00:55:18,390 --> 00:55:16,160
getting the same information we're all

1487
00:55:21,109 --> 00:55:18,400
experiencing you know think about when

1488
00:55:23,109 --> 00:55:21,119
uh those new york times stories hit

1489
00:55:25,589 --> 00:55:23,119
i mean that was quite amazing i mean it

1490
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:25,599
was electrifying like people like you

1491
00:55:27,990 --> 00:55:26,640
know you

1492
00:55:29,750 --> 00:55:28,000
maybe talk about your high school

1493
00:55:31,109 --> 00:55:29,760
friends who think you're weird now for

1494
00:55:33,510 --> 00:55:31,119
talking about ufos well they don't

1495
00:55:34,870 --> 00:55:33,520
anymore right because it's on the new

1496
00:55:37,510 --> 00:55:34,880
york times

1497
00:55:40,230 --> 00:55:37,520
and you know so it becomes the uh you

1498
00:55:43,430 --> 00:55:40,240
know i think we should all go re-watch

1499
00:55:45,750 --> 00:55:43,440
2001 a space odyssey because kubrick had

1500
00:55:47,750 --> 00:55:45,760
it absolutely right and he was talking

1501
00:55:50,150 --> 00:55:47,760
about i mean look this is the monolith

1502
00:55:51,270 --> 00:55:50,160
right so he's talking about the monolith

1503
00:55:54,230 --> 00:55:51,280
and um

1504
00:55:56,950 --> 00:55:54,240
what was the monolith well it's this so

1505
00:55:58,710 --> 00:55:56,960
that i so he was really correct speaking

1506
00:56:00,950 --> 00:55:58,720
of which i think i saw a text there from

1507
00:56:03,349 --> 00:56:00,960
alex dietrich she was saying eject eject

1508
00:56:05,670 --> 00:56:03,359
eject i'm just kidding

1509
00:56:07,030 --> 00:56:05,680
exactly well it's this sense in which

1510
00:56:09,430 --> 00:56:07,040
the like

1511
00:56:11,750 --> 00:56:09,440
the ritualization

1512
00:56:15,510 --> 00:56:11,760
uh and the uh official

1513
00:56:18,309 --> 00:56:15,520
medium like uh uh

1514
00:56:20,309 --> 00:56:18,319
acknowledgement is the is the spawn the

1515
00:56:23,030 --> 00:56:20,319
birth of the religion itself it's not

1516
00:56:25,270 --> 00:56:23,040
the it's not the initial experience it

1517
00:56:28,309 --> 00:56:25,280
is it is what we do to try to recreate

1518
00:56:31,109 --> 00:56:28,319
the experience through the act of ritual

1519
00:56:33,589 --> 00:56:31,119
uh or uh the approximation of the

1520
00:56:35,349 --> 00:56:33,599
experience itself like it's it's when we

1521
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:35,359
start codifying it in that way that we

1522
00:56:39,589 --> 00:56:37,760
are really forming a system

1523
00:56:41,670 --> 00:56:39,599
well i think that andy warhol is

1524
00:56:45,430 --> 00:56:41,680
actually helpful here because andy

1525
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:45,440
warhol in the 60s kind of took stuff

1526
00:56:50,470 --> 00:56:47,760
that was of everyday reality and

1527
00:56:52,950 --> 00:56:50,480
recreated it ad nauseum

1528
00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:52,960
what was his what was the art where was

1529
00:57:02,789 --> 00:56:53,599
it

1530
00:57:05,190 --> 00:57:02,799
one event that happens

1531
00:57:06,950 --> 00:57:05,200
it's this thing that's happening

1532
00:57:09,829 --> 00:57:06,960
there's no like this one kind of

1533
00:57:12,710 --> 00:57:09,839
heurophany it's this continuous

1534
00:57:15,190 --> 00:57:12,720
you know um x-files episode or black

1535
00:57:18,069 --> 00:57:15,200
keeps going yeah exactly and it keeps

1536
00:57:19,910 --> 00:57:18,079
showing because the technology is now we

1537
00:57:21,589 --> 00:57:19,920
never turn it off

1538
00:57:23,910 --> 00:57:21,599
we have a vehicle that we didn't have

1539
00:57:25,750 --> 00:57:23,920
because i couldn't send smoke signals to

1540
00:57:27,750 --> 00:57:25,760
nathan in north carolina about what was

1541
00:57:30,150 --> 00:57:27,760
going on if you didn't know that person

1542
00:57:31,910 --> 00:57:30,160
or correspond them with by letter then

1543
00:57:33,750 --> 00:57:31,920
you couldn't but now we can do this like

1544
00:57:36,069 --> 00:57:33,760
you're saying we could do it all day

1545
00:57:38,069 --> 00:57:36,079
long all night long that's right and in

1546
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:38,079
fact it will go if it's being recorded

1547
00:57:43,270 --> 00:57:40,559
it will be going you know kind of like

1548
00:57:44,470 --> 00:57:43,280
the there's no end to it right that's a

1549
00:57:47,910 --> 00:57:44,480
good point

1550
00:57:48,950 --> 00:57:47,920
so i'm i'm curiou i'm i'm curious um

1551
00:57:55,430 --> 00:57:48,960
so

1552
00:57:58,549 --> 00:57:55,440
know fundamental structure to support

1553
00:58:01,589 --> 00:57:58,559
all of these objective experiences um so

1554
00:58:03,349 --> 00:58:01,599
you mentioned uh you know uh mary uh

1555
00:58:05,750 --> 00:58:03,359
just last week i was in israel i had a

1556
00:58:07,589 --> 00:58:05,760
chance to actually go to uh the the

1557
00:58:08,390 --> 00:58:07,599
church at the annotation and you know

1558
00:58:11,190 --> 00:58:08,400
apparently

1559
00:58:14,549 --> 00:58:11,200
see the the grotto where that had

1560
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:14,559
happened uh where the angel gabriel came

1561
00:58:18,870 --> 00:58:16,240
down and visited mary to make the

1562
00:58:20,549 --> 00:58:18,880
declaration about jesus

1563
00:58:23,430 --> 00:58:20,559
it's the same angel gabriel that made

1564
00:58:26,069 --> 00:58:23,440
the same declaration to muhammad

1565
00:58:28,870 --> 00:58:26,079
um and you know so you you have these

1566
00:58:32,069 --> 00:58:28,880
these different subjective experiences

1567
00:58:34,390 --> 00:58:32,079
um that have to have some sort of uh

1568
00:58:37,990 --> 00:58:34,400
formal structure that's built so i'm

1569
00:58:40,549 --> 00:58:38,000
curious um once the declaration is made

1570
00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:40,559
and you have all of these collective

1571
00:58:45,270 --> 00:58:43,440
subjective experiences globally um you

1572
00:58:46,069 --> 00:58:45,280
know where is the

1573
00:58:47,270 --> 00:58:46,079
the

1574
00:58:49,750 --> 00:58:47,280
skeleton

1575
00:58:52,150 --> 00:58:49,760
of this uh religion how would it you

1576
00:58:54,549 --> 00:58:52,160
know how would it evolve

1577
00:58:58,069 --> 00:58:54,559
yes so we are inside that skeleton at

1578
00:59:03,750 --> 00:59:00,710
so we're you know it's like we're within

1579
00:59:06,789 --> 00:59:03,760
we're within technology now yeah we're

1580
00:59:07,910 --> 00:59:06,799
all virtual talking to each other so i'm

1581
00:59:13,750 --> 00:59:07,920
trying to

1582
00:59:16,950 --> 00:59:13,760
the the way of looking at it you know

1583
00:59:18,870 --> 00:59:16,960
there's it's a new form of religion it's

1584
00:59:20,870 --> 00:59:18,880
not a new religion and when i say

1585
00:59:21,670 --> 00:59:20,880
religion i'm talking about

1586
00:59:23,750 --> 00:59:21,680
uh

1587
00:59:25,750 --> 00:59:23,760
the elements of religion so i'm talking

1588
00:59:28,789 --> 00:59:25,760
about a belief system

1589
00:59:31,270 --> 00:59:28,799
um a belief system that

1590
00:59:33,670 --> 00:59:31,280
has spiritual connotations

1591
00:59:35,910 --> 00:59:33,680
so you know a lot of people

1592
00:59:37,589 --> 00:59:35,920
first you know we've not seen just like

1593
00:59:40,309 --> 00:59:37,599
we had we you know a lot of atheists

1594
00:59:45,510 --> 00:59:40,319
will say give me evidence of god and

1595
00:59:49,750 --> 00:59:48,789
so give me evidence of a ufo and i'll

1596
00:59:52,230 --> 00:59:49,760
believe

1597
00:59:53,750 --> 00:59:52,240
okay well all of a sudden you know for

1598
00:59:56,870 --> 00:59:53,760
the for the longest time everybody's

1599
00:59:58,630 --> 00:59:56,880
like i can't do it can't do it and then

1600
01:00:00,789 --> 00:59:58,640
you know i come along and i say whoa

1601
01:00:02,549 --> 01:00:00,799
these people think they have evidence

1602
01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:02,559
okay and then the new york times

1603
01:00:07,109 --> 01:00:04,400
articles come along and they say oh yeah

1604
01:00:09,030 --> 01:00:07,119
we've got evidence right and so there's

1605
01:00:10,950 --> 01:00:09,040
this but we still don't know and where's

1606
01:00:12,630 --> 01:00:10,960
the evidence and so what i'm trying to

1607
01:00:13,589 --> 01:00:12,640
say here is that

1608
01:00:15,829 --> 01:00:13,599
um

1609
01:00:18,150 --> 01:00:15,839
it sure does look like

1610
01:00:20,150 --> 01:00:18,160
belief is something that we can't prove

1611
01:00:22,710 --> 01:00:20,160
that we don't have evidence for

1612
01:00:25,589 --> 01:00:22,720
yet it's a robust belief and it's

1613
01:00:27,270 --> 01:00:25,599
getting institutional backing say here

1614
01:00:30,230 --> 01:00:27,280
with you know obviously

1615
01:00:32,789 --> 01:00:30,240
and with the june 25th pentagon military

1616
01:00:35,109 --> 01:00:32,799
report that comes out and says

1617
01:00:37,430 --> 01:00:35,119
yes you know just like it did in 1952

1618
01:00:39,190 --> 01:00:37,440
yes you know we there are these things

1619
01:00:41,349 --> 01:00:39,200
um and we do want to study them and now

1620
01:00:42,789 --> 01:00:41,359
money is um you know the government is

1621
01:00:44,630 --> 01:00:42,799
trying to get money together to study

1622
01:00:46,710 --> 01:00:44,640
this so that looks like institutional

1623
01:00:48,710 --> 01:00:46,720
support akin to

1624
01:00:50,710 --> 01:00:48,720
what has happened in the religions that

1625
01:00:52,309 --> 01:00:50,720
you talked about earlier because that's

1626
01:00:54,870 --> 01:00:52,319
the formation of these religions they

1627
01:00:57,829 --> 01:00:54,880
start out rogue right and then they

1628
01:00:59,750 --> 01:00:57,839
become institutionalized by a powerful

1629
01:01:02,069 --> 01:00:59,760
is a structure like a government

1630
01:01:03,910 --> 01:01:02,079
generally like christianity you're in

1631
01:01:04,710 --> 01:01:03,920
the place of worship right now that's

1632
01:01:07,030 --> 01:01:04,720
right

1633
01:01:10,069 --> 01:01:07,040
i'm going to pass out the tithing

1634
01:01:11,030 --> 01:01:10,079
yeah so you're saying that um let me

1635
01:01:13,030 --> 01:01:11,040
hear it make sure i'm hearing you

1636
01:01:15,670 --> 01:01:13,040
correctly that like at the constantine

1637
01:01:17,910 --> 01:01:15,680
moment where it it becomes the the state

1638
01:01:19,510 --> 01:01:17,920
religion and it unifies the roman empire

1639
01:01:21,589 --> 01:01:19,520
in a way that it you know maybe hadn't

1640
01:01:22,710 --> 01:01:21,599
been before or at least in a long time

1641
01:01:24,870 --> 01:01:22,720
um

1642
01:01:27,349 --> 01:01:24,880
you know i always viewed that and maybe

1643
01:01:28,950 --> 01:01:27,359
incorrectly that you know constantine

1644
01:01:31,270 --> 01:01:28,960
sort of sees an opportunity you know

1645
01:01:33,349 --> 01:01:31,280
like hey like i've got some something i

1646
01:01:34,789 --> 01:01:33,359
can really latch on to it's a monotheism

1647
01:01:36,710 --> 01:01:34,799
which is great because i can align like

1648
01:01:38,630 --> 01:01:36,720
the state structure with uh the

1649
01:01:40,549 --> 01:01:38,640
monotheistic belief system and i could

1650
01:01:42,470 --> 01:01:40,559
be closer to the divine and people will

1651
01:01:45,030 --> 01:01:42,480
believe that i'm i've got the ear of god

1652
01:01:46,069 --> 01:01:45,040
or whatever um so you're saying that um

1653
01:01:47,670 --> 01:01:46,079
the state

1654
01:01:50,829 --> 01:01:47,680
in this instance the united states

1655
01:01:53,349 --> 01:01:50,839
government you know may potentially

1656
01:01:55,829 --> 01:01:53,359
use this uh

1657
01:01:59,029 --> 01:01:55,839
you know ufology or the phenomenon as in

1658
01:02:01,270 --> 01:01:59,039
a similar fashion as a like a unifying

1659
01:02:03,510 --> 01:02:01,280
worldview creation moment

1660
01:02:05,990 --> 01:02:03,520
if if they kind of back it officially is

1661
01:02:08,069 --> 01:02:06,000
that that they could then

1662
01:02:11,430 --> 01:02:08,079
take advantage of it okay so i'm saying

1663
01:02:15,190 --> 01:02:11,440
that this is the this has this is the uh

1664
01:02:17,109 --> 01:02:15,200
these are the steps in the creation of a

1665
01:02:18,870 --> 01:02:17,119
belief system like a religion indeed

1666
01:02:20,950 --> 01:02:18,880
this is the case okay you can see it

1667
01:02:22,870 --> 01:02:20,960
with buddhism um you can see it with

1668
01:02:23,670 --> 01:02:22,880
christianity you can see it with islam

1669
01:02:27,109 --> 01:02:23,680
right

1670
01:02:29,270 --> 01:02:27,119
um okay so if that's the case and it is

1671
01:02:30,710 --> 01:02:29,280
and i and if we take that template and

1672
01:02:34,069 --> 01:02:30,720
we stick it onto

1673
01:02:36,150 --> 01:02:34,079
you know the 1940s well what happened

1674
01:02:37,109 --> 01:02:36,160
there you know some strange things

1675
01:02:39,029 --> 01:02:37,119
happened

1676
01:02:41,109 --> 01:02:39,039
and then there was a narrative

1677
01:02:43,109 --> 01:02:41,119
and that narrative was absolutely

1678
01:02:45,430 --> 01:02:43,119
controlled right i mean we know it

1679
01:02:47,670 --> 01:02:45,440
project blue book they there

1680
01:02:49,670 --> 01:02:47,680
even there's a lot that is still

1681
01:02:51,670 --> 01:02:49,680
classified that we don't know and that's

1682
01:02:53,349 --> 01:02:51,680
something we should talk about too um

1683
01:02:54,950 --> 01:02:53,359
because as a researcher

1684
01:02:56,549 --> 01:02:54,960
you've got if you don't talk about that

1685
01:02:59,910 --> 01:02:56,559
you're not doing good research you've

1686
01:03:02,150 --> 01:02:59,920
got to say i don't have access to these

1687
01:03:05,109 --> 01:03:02,160
records because in this history because

1688
01:03:06,870 --> 01:03:05,119
it's classified and the people who do by

1689
01:03:09,029 --> 01:03:06,880
the way dj the people who do air force

1690
01:03:10,710 --> 01:03:09,039
history those historians are super

1691
01:03:12,870 --> 01:03:10,720
honest because if you go to the history

1692
01:03:13,990 --> 01:03:12,880
of the air force they just right frankly

1693
01:03:15,829 --> 01:03:14,000
say

1694
01:03:17,750 --> 01:03:15,839
yeah we can't tell you all the history

1695
01:03:19,990 --> 01:03:17,760
but we'll tell you this much and the

1696
01:03:21,990 --> 01:03:20,000
historians of the future will get the

1697
01:03:23,910 --> 01:03:22,000
declassified stuff and we can then tell

1698
01:03:26,390 --> 01:03:23,920
you what happened

1699
01:03:29,430 --> 01:03:26,400
i'm not afraid to be critical of of the

1700
01:03:31,990 --> 01:03:29,440
institution of my uh the institution i

1701
01:03:33,349 --> 01:03:32,000
love i i i'm critical of myself i'll be

1702
01:03:34,950 --> 01:03:33,359
critical of them

1703
01:03:37,109 --> 01:03:34,960
hey you know i mean i'm sure they did

1704
01:03:38,549 --> 01:03:37,119
for a reason right so we're u.s citizens

1705
01:03:40,870 --> 01:03:38,559
and you know

1706
01:03:43,190 --> 01:03:40,880
they who knows what they did it for but

1707
01:03:46,230 --> 01:03:43,200
it's classified and so but there was

1708
01:03:48,470 --> 01:03:46,240
also an education or i'm kind of like a

1709
01:03:50,150 --> 01:03:48,480
debunking um

1710
01:03:52,470 --> 01:03:50,160
that happened through project blue book

1711
01:03:55,589 --> 01:03:52,480
right um the robertson panel suggested

1712
01:03:57,109 --> 01:03:55,599
that the government engage in debunking

1713
01:03:59,990 --> 01:03:57,119
of people you know basically to

1714
01:04:02,470 --> 01:04:00,000
stigmatize this knowledge and so if you

1715
01:04:04,950 --> 01:04:02,480
don't see that as the part of the

1716
01:04:07,510 --> 01:04:04,960
structure of which i'm talking about um

1717
01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:07,520
it's pretty darn clear um is it still

1718
01:04:10,829 --> 01:04:09,599
happening i mean let's hope that it is

1719
01:04:14,630 --> 01:04:10,839
not happening

1720
01:04:16,950 --> 01:04:14,640
now not to the level it was so

1721
01:04:18,549 --> 01:04:16,960
so it's an interesting point that um

1722
01:04:19,589 --> 01:04:18,559
nathan brought up about the nigerian

1723
01:04:22,870 --> 01:04:19,599
council

1724
01:04:26,630 --> 01:04:22,880
um you know under you know uh you know

1725
01:04:28,710 --> 01:04:26,640
the the roman rule um we were you know

1726
01:04:30,309 --> 01:04:28,720
forced to come up with the modern bible

1727
01:04:32,549 --> 01:04:30,319
as we have it today

1728
01:04:34,750 --> 01:04:32,559
um but you know it's doctrine it was

1729
01:04:38,789 --> 01:04:34,760
collected doctrine that needed to be

1730
01:04:41,029 --> 01:04:38,799
consolidated so i know that you um have

1731
01:04:43,750 --> 01:04:41,039
had access to a lot of folks that are in

1732
01:04:45,990 --> 01:04:43,760
the know quote unquote in the know um

1733
01:04:48,630 --> 01:04:46,000
and i'm curious um

1734
01:04:50,470 --> 01:04:48,640
where do you think that this doctrine

1735
01:04:51,990 --> 01:04:50,480
uh for this new religion would be

1736
01:04:53,589 --> 01:04:52,000
sourced from do you think it would be

1737
01:04:55,430 --> 01:04:53,599
sourced from individuals or do you think

1738
01:04:56,870 --> 01:04:55,440
it would be sourced uh from the

1739
01:04:59,510 --> 01:04:56,880
government or do you think it would be

1740
01:05:02,150 --> 01:04:59,520
sourced from science

1741
01:05:04,390 --> 01:05:02,160
okay so that's a really good question um

1742
01:05:06,470 --> 01:05:04,400
did you guys like hand pick mark to ask

1743
01:05:09,109 --> 01:05:06,480
these questions yes actually we did yeah

1744
01:05:10,549 --> 01:05:09,119
very sophisticated yeah

1745
01:05:12,390 --> 01:05:10,559
um

1746
01:05:14,710 --> 01:05:12,400
yeah okay so where is this going to be

1747
01:05:17,670 --> 01:05:14,720
sourced from um let me point out though

1748
01:05:19,750 --> 01:05:17,680
that in the history of christianity and

1749
01:05:22,549 --> 01:05:19,760
especially when the council of nicaea

1750
01:05:25,270 --> 01:05:22,559
happened um a lot there were

1751
01:05:28,309 --> 01:05:25,280
hundreds maybe even a thousand different

1752
01:05:31,510 --> 01:05:28,319
varieties of christianity okay and so

1753
01:05:34,710 --> 01:05:31,520
the constantine kind of pushed his form

1754
01:05:37,670 --> 01:05:34,720
of christianity backed by the bishops

1755
01:05:38,710 --> 01:05:37,680
and they solidified and made dogmatic

1756
01:05:39,990 --> 01:05:38,720
right so

1757
01:05:42,230 --> 01:05:40,000
you know

1758
01:05:44,309 --> 01:05:42,240
you had to believe this or we will burn

1759
01:05:46,470 --> 01:05:44,319
your books literally okay

1760
01:05:47,990 --> 01:05:46,480
so um you know

1761
01:05:50,789 --> 01:05:48,000
they're

1762
01:05:52,870 --> 01:05:50,799
so people basically you know that's

1763
01:05:54,549 --> 01:05:52,880
that's what happens a lot of times then

1764
01:05:56,150 --> 01:05:54,559
those varieties of

1765
01:05:58,230 --> 01:05:56,160
christian traditions

1766
01:06:00,150 --> 01:05:58,240
are unknown and we don't know about them

1767
01:06:02,069 --> 01:06:00,160
today we do know about some

1768
01:06:03,750 --> 01:06:02,079
um did they survive

1769
01:06:05,589 --> 01:06:03,760
uh are there elements of those

1770
01:06:06,710 --> 01:06:05,599
traditions that survived

1771
01:06:08,230 --> 01:06:06,720
um so

1772
01:06:10,069 --> 01:06:08,240
yes there are elements of those

1773
01:06:11,589 --> 01:06:10,079
traditions that survive like gnosticism

1774
01:06:14,470 --> 01:06:11,599
and things like that they survived in

1775
01:06:18,069 --> 01:06:14,480
the monastic communities and so um and

1776
01:06:20,789 --> 01:06:18,079
we see that um and people try to recover

1777
01:06:22,390 --> 01:06:20,799
that now why uh because maybe there's

1778
01:06:24,549 --> 01:06:22,400
something really interesting there

1779
01:06:27,190 --> 01:06:24,559
that's not part of the dometic i mean

1780
01:06:29,430 --> 01:06:27,200
dogmatic uh you know

1781
01:06:32,390 --> 01:06:29,440
interpretation of christianity so how

1782
01:06:33,430 --> 01:06:32,400
does that apply to ufology or to ufo

1783
01:06:36,069 --> 01:06:33,440
belief

1784
01:06:38,549 --> 01:06:36,079
um i think this is how it applies i

1785
01:06:41,109 --> 01:06:38,559
think that just as you know you can have

1786
01:06:43,750 --> 01:06:41,119
your dogmatic institutional

1787
01:06:45,510 --> 01:06:43,760
um belief structure do you know how many

1788
01:06:47,829 --> 01:06:45,520
roads people are going to be out there

1789
01:06:49,589 --> 01:06:47,839
having their own contact experiences and

1790
01:06:51,270 --> 01:06:49,599
doing their own science and doing their

1791
01:06:52,710 --> 01:06:51,280
own things those are the people that are

1792
01:06:53,750 --> 01:06:52,720
going to be truly exceptional in my

1793
01:06:55,430 --> 01:06:53,760
opinion

1794
01:06:57,829 --> 01:06:55,440
um but those are not you know and i

1795
01:06:59,270 --> 01:06:57,839
think that it's those people who

1796
01:07:01,349 --> 01:06:59,280
you know they create the

1797
01:07:03,589 --> 01:07:01,359
mutation they create the mutation in a

1798
01:07:05,510 --> 01:07:03,599
good way because you know a lot of times

1799
01:07:07,910 --> 01:07:05,520
the reason why we progress is because of

1800
01:07:10,870 --> 01:07:07,920
mutations that are positive mutations

1801
01:07:11,910 --> 01:07:10,880
and so i don't think that it's you know

1802
01:07:15,109 --> 01:07:11,920
i don't think a lot of people are going

1803
01:07:17,589 --> 01:07:15,119
to be following the this the line of you

1804
01:07:20,230 --> 01:07:17,599
know say saying for

1805
01:07:21,829 --> 01:07:20,240
uh let's just say because

1806
01:07:23,430 --> 01:07:21,839
there's precedent for this that the

1807
01:07:26,069 --> 01:07:23,440
government decides that it's the

1808
01:07:27,349 --> 01:07:26,079
scientists within its own programs that

1809
01:07:29,829 --> 01:07:27,359
are going to be the ones who are going

1810
01:07:31,190 --> 01:07:29,839
to give us knowledge about uaps and ufos

1811
01:07:33,589 --> 01:07:31,200
well that's going to be

1812
01:07:35,430 --> 01:07:33,599
uh sure that's going to be very

1813
01:07:37,270 --> 01:07:35,440
surprising for those people who already

1814
01:07:39,190 --> 01:07:37,280
are having all these contact events

1815
01:07:41,349 --> 01:07:39,200
right and it's you know and perhaps it's

1816
01:07:42,789 --> 01:07:41,359
going to basically um people won't

1817
01:07:44,870 --> 01:07:42,799
believe those people because they're not

1818
01:07:46,630 --> 01:07:44,880
authoritative they don't have phds you

1819
01:07:49,510 --> 01:07:46,640
know they're not you know associated

1820
01:07:50,870 --> 01:07:49,520
with you know the government in in ways

1821
01:07:53,829 --> 01:07:50,880
and but they're still having those

1822
01:07:54,950 --> 01:07:53,839
experiences it's it's religion generally

1823
01:07:57,029 --> 01:07:54,960
that's what happens in religion

1824
01:07:58,870 --> 01:07:57,039
generally there's always going to be the

1825
01:08:01,510 --> 01:07:58,880
people who consider themselves to be

1826
01:08:03,430 --> 01:08:01,520
orthodox and those who are doing what's

1827
01:08:05,990 --> 01:08:03,440
called unorthodox you know they're

1828
01:08:07,910 --> 01:08:06,000
unorthodox and um i guess i guess that's

1829
01:08:10,150 --> 01:08:07,920
what my research is about you know i

1830
01:08:12,870 --> 01:08:10,160
happened upon a lot of the people who i

1831
01:08:15,190 --> 01:08:12,880
consider to be quite an orthodox um for

1832
01:08:17,590 --> 01:08:15,200
scientists they were but they're you

1833
01:08:18,789 --> 01:08:17,600
know they're ensconced within this

1834
01:08:22,309 --> 01:08:18,799
white club

1835
01:08:23,189 --> 01:08:22,319
type of uh environment of uap study

1836
01:08:24,390 --> 01:08:23,199
and

1837
01:08:25,749 --> 01:08:24,400
um

1838
01:08:28,149 --> 01:08:25,759
and there's lots of other people who

1839
01:08:29,510 --> 01:08:28,159
make amazing discoveries who are not

1840
01:08:31,749 --> 01:08:29,520
within that

1841
01:08:33,669 --> 01:08:31,759
right yeah it's this valuable role that

1842
01:08:36,789 --> 01:08:33,679
uh like uh

1843
01:08:39,189 --> 01:08:36,799
dogma and orthodoxy and heresy play in

1844
01:08:41,510 --> 01:08:39,199
the development of belief like they they

1845
01:08:43,510 --> 01:08:41,520
actually function they're codependent

1846
01:08:45,669 --> 01:08:43,520
and and they influence and so that you

1847
01:08:48,630 --> 01:08:45,679
know heresies often over time become the

1848
01:08:50,229 --> 01:08:48,640
new dogma the new orthodoxy so you know

1849
01:08:51,749 --> 01:08:50,239
i think we'll see that in this space we

1850
01:08:53,669 --> 01:08:51,759
already are we already do see it we sit

1851
01:08:55,110 --> 01:08:53,679
now you know there's this and are going

1852
01:08:56,630 --> 01:08:55,120
in the community it's often talked about

1853
01:08:58,229 --> 01:08:56,640
you know we have the nuts and bolts

1854
01:09:00,470 --> 01:08:58,239
people we have the experiencer people

1855
01:09:03,110 --> 01:09:00,480
and you know which one has the truth

1856
01:09:05,749 --> 01:09:03,120
with a capital t and in fact it's going

1857
01:09:07,269 --> 01:09:05,759
to have to kind of be across all these

1858
01:09:09,189 --> 01:09:07,279
different things

1859
01:09:10,630 --> 01:09:09,199
i guess that makes me want to switch to

1860
01:09:12,070 --> 01:09:10,640
the last sort of topics i wanted to get

1861
01:09:14,789 --> 01:09:12,080
into with you and that that is sort of

1862
01:09:16,470 --> 01:09:14,799
these ontological models generally you

1863
01:09:17,829 --> 01:09:16,480
know so when you're interacting with

1864
01:09:20,470 --> 01:09:17,839
folks that

1865
01:09:21,590 --> 01:09:20,480
were in the invisible college uh or

1866
01:09:23,910 --> 01:09:21,600
others that were you know really

1867
01:09:27,669 --> 01:09:23,920
studying this very inten intently

1868
01:09:29,910 --> 01:09:27,679
did you see in all any sort of um

1869
01:09:31,669 --> 01:09:29,920
recurring or common uh sort of

1870
01:09:34,070 --> 01:09:31,679
ontological belief systems that they

1871
01:09:36,789 --> 01:09:34,080
shared about what it was or about their

1872
01:09:39,669 --> 01:09:36,799
worldview more generally

1873
01:09:40,630 --> 01:09:39,679
yeah sure that's a great question um

1874
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:40,640
so

1875
01:09:44,709 --> 01:09:43,120
it seemed to me

1876
01:09:46,789 --> 01:09:44,719
that

1877
01:09:49,910 --> 01:09:46,799
they were well you know we're talking

1878
01:09:52,789 --> 01:09:49,920
about people who are physicists you know

1879
01:09:56,950 --> 01:09:52,799
and um some astrophysicists

1880
01:09:58,630 --> 01:09:56,960
medical doctors um molecular biologists

1881
01:10:00,790 --> 01:09:58,640
um you know so

1882
01:10:02,950 --> 01:10:00,800
they're looking at

1883
01:10:04,070 --> 01:10:02,960
phenomena that they

1884
01:10:07,590 --> 01:10:04,080
could not

1885
01:10:09,910 --> 01:10:07,600
they couldn't understand it okay so um

1886
01:10:12,550 --> 01:10:09,920
they had to come up with explanatory

1887
01:10:14,070 --> 01:10:12,560
frameworks in order to describe what it

1888
01:10:16,229 --> 01:10:14,080
was that they're

1889
01:10:17,830 --> 01:10:16,239
looking at and then of course you have

1890
01:10:20,310 --> 01:10:17,840
very wealthy people who are interested

1891
01:10:21,910 --> 01:10:20,320
in supporting that research because

1892
01:10:23,669 --> 01:10:21,920
that's probably going to give them an

1893
01:10:26,630 --> 01:10:23,679
edge i guess that's what they're

1894
01:10:29,110 --> 01:10:26,640
thinking their motivations i don't know

1895
01:10:30,630 --> 01:10:29,120
but that you know i found that there are

1896
01:10:32,950 --> 01:10:30,640
a lot of very wealthy people who are

1897
01:10:35,750 --> 01:10:32,960
interested um in this

1898
01:10:38,390 --> 01:10:35,760
and so that can that means that there's

1899
01:10:41,189 --> 01:10:38,400
like this privatized area of research

1900
01:10:42,950 --> 01:10:41,199
that's not controlled by the government

1901
01:10:44,630 --> 01:10:42,960
and um

1902
01:10:45,830 --> 01:10:44,640
and then these then the government

1903
01:10:47,430 --> 01:10:45,840
realizes that a lot of really

1904
01:10:50,229 --> 01:10:47,440
interesting research is happening over

1905
01:10:52,149 --> 01:10:50,239
here in this privatized area and so it

1906
01:10:55,510 --> 01:10:52,159
kind of tries to get in on it right and

1907
01:10:58,470 --> 01:10:55,520
does get in on it and um

1908
01:10:59,270 --> 01:10:58,480
so ontologically then i think that i

1909
01:11:00,550 --> 01:10:59,280
mean

1910
01:11:01,990 --> 01:11:00,560
personally

1911
01:11:04,390 --> 01:11:02,000
because i've had such a background in

1912
01:11:06,790 --> 01:11:04,400
philosophy i think that a lot of the

1913
01:11:08,790 --> 01:11:06,800
ontological frameworks that

1914
01:11:11,110 --> 01:11:08,800
people in the invisible college have

1915
01:11:13,910 --> 01:11:11,120
with the exception of maybe jacques

1916
01:11:16,630 --> 01:11:13,920
ballet um they need to get they need to

1917
01:11:17,430 --> 01:11:16,640
kind of lose old frameworks and start to

1918
01:11:19,590 --> 01:11:17,440
see

1919
01:11:21,830 --> 01:11:19,600
that you know they

1920
01:11:23,990 --> 01:11:21,840
i think that they need to see that

1921
01:11:25,990 --> 01:11:24,000
perhaps onto logically

1922
01:11:29,270 --> 01:11:26,000
it's whatever it is that they're looking

1923
01:11:31,510 --> 01:11:29,280
at is inherently meaningful

1924
01:11:34,550 --> 01:11:31,520
because we tend to think of matter and

1925
01:11:37,030 --> 01:11:34,560
things as like inert without meaning

1926
01:11:38,790 --> 01:11:37,040
only meaning we ascribe to it but it

1927
01:11:40,550 --> 01:11:38,800
seems to me that whatever it is that we

1928
01:11:42,070 --> 01:11:40,560
are studying it seems to have some kind

1929
01:11:43,590 --> 01:11:42,080
of innate meaning

1930
01:11:47,030 --> 01:11:43,600
and i think and that's where it gets

1931
01:11:49,430 --> 01:11:47,040
into this event because you know um

1932
01:11:51,270 --> 01:11:49,440
now remember i'm in you know i'm in a

1933
01:11:53,590 --> 01:11:51,280
philosophy and religion department so a

1934
01:11:56,550 --> 01:11:53,600
lot of the conversations are about

1935
01:11:58,709 --> 01:11:56,560
ontology and what is you know what are

1936
01:12:00,149 --> 01:11:58,719
these what is a theme what is an object

1937
01:12:01,830 --> 01:12:00,159
even martin heidegger has an essay

1938
01:12:03,590 --> 01:12:01,840
called what is an object

1939
01:12:05,510 --> 01:12:03,600
and once you start to break it down heck

1940
01:12:06,229 --> 01:12:05,520
there is no thing there right right and

1941
01:12:08,950 --> 01:12:06,239
so

1942
01:12:10,149 --> 01:12:08,960
things have to be things have to happen

1943
01:12:11,590 --> 01:12:10,159
in time

1944
01:12:13,830 --> 01:12:11,600
so whatever it is that we're studying

1945
01:12:15,510 --> 01:12:13,840
this whole idea of synchronicity fits in

1946
01:12:17,990 --> 01:12:15,520
there with it and if you get to the

1947
01:12:19,430 --> 01:12:18,000
meaning of these things you begin to see

1948
01:12:22,550 --> 01:12:19,440
wow you know there's some kind of

1949
01:12:24,709 --> 01:12:22,560
intrinsic meaning to these events

1950
01:12:27,030 --> 01:12:24,719
these event objects things right so

1951
01:12:30,390 --> 01:12:27,040
ontologically so i think that

1952
01:12:32,229 --> 01:12:30,400
so you asked me i guess nathan

1953
01:12:34,390 --> 01:12:32,239
what were like the people in the

1954
01:12:37,350 --> 01:12:34,400
invisible college what are they thinking

1955
01:12:39,350 --> 01:12:37,360
in terms of what's the ontological

1956
01:12:40,709 --> 01:12:39,360
being or framework of these of the

1957
01:12:42,630 --> 01:12:40,719
phenomena

1958
01:12:43,990 --> 01:12:42,640
i think that they don't know i think

1959
01:12:46,070 --> 01:12:44,000
that they're questioning they're trying

1960
01:12:49,110 --> 01:12:46,080
to figure it out and i also think that

1961
01:12:52,070 --> 01:12:49,120
there is um invisible college is like

1962
01:12:54,950 --> 01:12:52,080
the second generation there's first

1963
01:12:57,430 --> 01:12:54,960
generation 1940s 1950s

1964
01:12:59,750 --> 01:12:57,440
second generation invisible college the

1965
01:13:01,669 --> 01:12:59,760
people from the 1960s 70s maybe into the

1966
01:13:04,630 --> 01:13:01,679
80s and then we have fight club the

1967
01:13:06,630 --> 01:13:04,640
fight club general okay and so i think

1968
01:13:09,270 --> 01:13:06,640
that um the people in the fight club

1969
01:13:10,790 --> 01:13:09,280
generation are the ones who are um more

1970
01:13:13,590 --> 01:13:10,800
technologically

1971
01:13:15,669 --> 01:13:13,600
sophisticated and understand kind of

1972
01:13:17,430 --> 01:13:15,679
more the physics of today

1973
01:13:19,350 --> 01:13:17,440
and um

1974
01:13:22,070 --> 01:13:19,360
and yeah so i think that things are a

1975
01:13:23,669 --> 01:13:22,080
lot different so a lot of people ask me

1976
01:13:25,590 --> 01:13:23,679
to introduce them to the evangelical

1977
01:13:27,910 --> 01:13:25,600
college right happens all the time it

1978
01:13:30,870 --> 01:13:27,920
happens when people hollywood it happens

1979
01:13:32,790 --> 01:13:30,880
from students or like some people i

1980
01:13:35,030 --> 01:13:32,800
don't even know email me and say hey i

1981
01:13:36,149 --> 01:13:35,040
have this idea can you introduce me to

1982
01:13:38,070 --> 01:13:36,159
some you know

1983
01:13:39,590 --> 01:13:38,080
name a person in the evening

1984
01:13:41,430 --> 01:13:39,600
a lot of us know who they are already

1985
01:13:44,310 --> 01:13:41,440
right sure not like they're invisible

1986
01:13:46,870 --> 01:13:44,320
anymore right okay wait diana can we

1987
01:13:49,350 --> 01:13:46,880
just see your invisible college id card

1988
01:13:52,950 --> 01:13:49,360
or your your swipe badge to enter the

1989
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:56,870
just kidding all right so

1990
01:14:00,870 --> 01:13:59,430
all right um

1991
01:14:02,630 --> 01:14:00,880
nathan's got to make the call because

1992
01:14:03,990 --> 01:14:02,640
there are people in the chat that that

1993
01:14:05,189 --> 01:14:04,000
want to ask questions that's going to be

1994
01:14:07,270 --> 01:14:05,199
up to nathan

1995
01:14:08,870 --> 01:14:07,280
um and i was going to ask a question

1996
01:14:10,550 --> 01:14:08,880
about the invisible college but we don't

1997
01:14:12,870 --> 01:14:10,560
have a lot more time

1998
01:14:15,669 --> 01:14:12,880
so i want to uh give those people the

1999
01:14:17,430 --> 01:14:15,679
opportunity yeah

2000
01:14:19,430 --> 01:14:17,440
thank you guys so much for having me

2001
01:14:20,950 --> 01:14:19,440
yeah mark thank you man mark

2002
01:14:23,270 --> 01:14:20,960
thanks for bringing a great question

2003
01:14:24,950 --> 01:14:23,280
namaste brother where's your hair uh can

2004
01:14:26,470 --> 01:14:24,960
i see your hair

2005
01:14:28,229 --> 01:14:26,480
you look like steve jobs there we go

2006
01:14:30,470 --> 01:14:28,239
okay all right all right you look like

2007
01:14:32,149 --> 01:14:30,480
steve jobs tonight all right man see you

2008
01:14:33,590 --> 01:14:32,159
brother thank you all right

2009
01:14:34,870 --> 01:14:33,600
good job well i don't want to spend a

2010
01:14:36,070 --> 01:14:34,880
lot of time on it but i do want to ask

2011
01:14:38,149 --> 01:14:36,080
you this because a lot of people wanted

2012
01:14:40,229 --> 01:14:38,159
me to ask you about this so it relates

2013
01:14:41,110 --> 01:14:40,239
to on the ontological models but it's

2014
01:14:43,430 --> 01:14:41,120
about

2015
01:14:45,669 --> 01:14:43,440
eschatological models all right so of

2016
01:14:48,070 --> 01:14:45,679
course we we know that the way that we

2017
01:14:49,590 --> 01:14:48,080
might think yeah exactly

2018
01:14:52,709 --> 01:14:49,600
we know that the way in which we think

2019
01:14:54,390 --> 01:14:52,719
about the end our own end or the end of

2020
01:14:55,990 --> 01:14:54,400
the cosmos or whatever it may be what

2021
01:14:57,590 --> 01:14:56,000
the end of the story happens to be the

2022
01:15:00,070 --> 01:14:57,600
way people think about that influences

2023
01:15:01,910 --> 01:15:00,080
the way we act in the present

2024
01:15:03,990 --> 01:15:01,920
and we also know or we've heard there

2025
01:15:05,430 --> 01:15:04,000
are those who have some degree of

2026
01:15:07,910 --> 01:15:05,440
connection to the phenomenon either

2027
01:15:09,270 --> 01:15:07,920
studying it or in agencies or whatever

2028
01:15:12,149 --> 01:15:09,280
have

2029
01:15:14,310 --> 01:15:12,159
particular eschatological views that the

2030
01:15:16,310 --> 01:15:14,320
phenomenon they may be able to

2031
01:15:19,189 --> 01:15:16,320
wield it or manipulate it or something

2032
01:15:20,709 --> 01:15:19,199
to bring about an end time event

2033
01:15:22,550 --> 01:15:20,719
uh you know what what are your thoughts

2034
01:15:25,189 --> 01:15:22,560
on you know this

2035
01:15:26,310 --> 01:15:25,199
uh notion generally and and what model

2036
01:15:28,550 --> 01:15:26,320
do you see

2037
01:15:31,270 --> 01:15:28,560
most prevalent uh in the thinking of

2038
01:15:33,910 --> 01:15:31,280
those who are in the invisible college

2039
01:15:35,110 --> 01:15:33,920
okay so this is the collins elite

2040
01:15:36,950 --> 01:15:35,120
question

2041
01:15:39,510 --> 01:15:36,960
is this correct yeah in a roundabout way

2042
01:15:41,110 --> 01:15:39,520
yeah right right okay okay okay

2043
01:15:43,669 --> 01:15:41,120
so um you got me

2044
01:15:45,510 --> 01:15:43,679
a lot of people discount

2045
01:15:47,189 --> 01:15:45,520
this pollen's elite right and they say

2046
01:15:48,310 --> 01:15:47,199
oh it's a made-up thing like nick

2047
01:15:51,030 --> 01:15:48,320
redfern

2048
01:15:54,630 --> 01:15:51,040
made it up or something like that um

2049
01:15:56,870 --> 01:15:54,640
i don't think so uh so basically one of

2050
01:15:58,310 --> 01:15:56,880
the weirdest things that i experienced

2051
01:16:00,790 --> 01:15:58,320
was that

2052
01:16:02,149 --> 01:16:00,800
and every time it happened i was just i

2053
01:16:03,030 --> 01:16:02,159
just didn't know what to think about it

2054
01:16:04,709 --> 01:16:03,040
um

2055
01:16:07,510 --> 01:16:04,719
people within the invisible college

2056
01:16:11,590 --> 01:16:07,520
would like out themselves

2057
01:16:14,390 --> 01:16:11,600
as being incredibly religious

2058
01:16:16,310 --> 01:16:14,400
we're not talking like oh i go to church

2059
01:16:18,870 --> 01:16:16,320
on easter and christmas

2060
01:16:21,189 --> 01:16:18,880
we're talking about

2061
01:16:22,870 --> 01:16:21,199
absolutely fundamentally

2062
01:16:23,910 --> 01:16:22,880
religious okay

2063
01:16:27,350 --> 01:16:23,920
and

2064
01:16:29,590 --> 01:16:27,360
i was surprised i did not know this they

2065
01:16:32,149 --> 01:16:29,600
they're not out about it

2066
01:16:34,950 --> 01:16:32,159
um what does this mean

2067
01:16:36,070 --> 01:16:34,960
so i still i mean

2068
01:16:40,070 --> 01:16:36,080
it

2069
01:16:41,270 --> 01:16:40,080
yeah that so that that was i mean

2070
01:16:43,590 --> 01:16:41,280
what does it mean

2071
01:16:47,590 --> 01:16:43,600
i don't know all i know is that

2072
01:16:49,990 --> 01:16:47,600
it the uh the story is way weirder

2073
01:16:51,430 --> 01:16:50,000
once you start to get to know the people

2074
01:16:54,390 --> 01:16:51,440
who do this work

2075
01:16:56,790 --> 01:16:54,400
and you cannot escape

2076
01:16:57,590 --> 01:16:56,800
religion in this you can't

2077
01:16:59,110 --> 01:16:57,600
and

2078
01:17:01,590 --> 01:16:59,120
i'm not saying that because i'm a

2079
01:17:04,070 --> 01:17:01,600
professor of religion

2080
01:17:06,310 --> 01:17:04,080
frankly i went into it as a professor

2081
01:17:07,510 --> 01:17:06,320
not as a person who's religious right

2082
01:17:09,990 --> 01:17:07,520
yeah and

2083
01:17:12,229 --> 01:17:10,000
and the more i had these experiences of

2084
01:17:14,630 --> 01:17:12,239
people basically telling me you know

2085
01:17:16,630 --> 01:17:14,640
pushing a book in my face and saying

2086
01:17:20,790 --> 01:17:16,640
you better read this like a history of

2087
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:24,149
i mean it was scary

2088
01:17:24,159 --> 01:17:27,910
coffee table

2089
01:17:31,910 --> 01:17:30,070
you know i mean that's disturbing even

2090
01:17:33,270 --> 01:17:31,920
to me

2091
01:17:35,430 --> 01:17:33,280
is it a vestige though of what they

2092
01:17:37,189 --> 01:17:35,440
inherited from the the prior generation

2093
01:17:39,669 --> 01:17:37,199
or is it it's reinforced by what they

2094
01:17:41,910 --> 01:17:39,679
are doing no i think that it is

2095
01:17:44,470 --> 01:17:41,920
something that happens because of what

2096
01:17:46,070 --> 01:17:44,480
they they're in do they're doing these

2097
01:17:47,270 --> 01:17:46,080
are people who are incredibly

2098
01:17:48,149 --> 01:17:47,280
intelligent

2099
01:17:49,990 --> 01:17:48,159
who

2100
01:17:51,910 --> 01:17:50,000
most likely when they were

2101
01:17:54,550 --> 01:17:51,920
in their 20s or they were going through

2102
01:17:56,630 --> 01:17:54,560
college they left their their religion

2103
01:17:57,590 --> 01:17:56,640
whatever it was catholicism christianity

2104
01:17:58,630 --> 01:17:57,600
whatever

2105
01:18:01,350 --> 01:17:58,640
um

2106
01:18:04,390 --> 01:18:01,360
judaism they left it right and became

2107
01:18:06,630 --> 01:18:04,400
atheistic scientists and then had these

2108
01:18:09,830 --> 01:18:06,640
experiences and then went back

2109
01:18:11,990 --> 01:18:09,840
i think i don't know frankly but this

2110
01:18:13,430 --> 01:18:12,000
isn't your normal

2111
01:18:17,189 --> 01:18:13,440
practicing

2112
01:18:18,870 --> 01:18:17,199
religious person we're talking about a

2113
01:18:22,470 --> 01:18:18,880
person who

2114
01:18:23,350 --> 01:18:22,480
lives and breathes it does that make

2115
01:18:26,149 --> 01:18:23,360
sense

2116
01:18:28,390 --> 01:18:26,159
and i'm only i'm only reporting this i'm

2117
01:18:30,390 --> 01:18:28,400
not making a judgment and i'm not making

2118
01:18:32,229 --> 01:18:30,400
any kind of like i'm not trying to

2119
01:18:33,830 --> 01:18:32,239
explain it i don't know let's put it

2120
01:18:35,510 --> 01:18:33,840
this way this is like one of the biggest

2121
01:18:38,550 --> 01:18:35,520
question marks that

2122
01:18:40,550 --> 01:18:38,560
i have coming out of the research

2123
01:18:42,870 --> 01:18:40,560
do you fear the phenomenon

2124
01:18:44,149 --> 01:18:42,880
do i theory

2125
01:18:46,950 --> 01:18:44,159
um

2126
01:18:48,630 --> 01:18:46,960
no i don't fear it

2127
01:18:51,270 --> 01:18:48,640
i i don't want you i mean i'm not going

2128
01:18:52,870 --> 01:18:51,280
to be accepting yes i want contact with

2129
01:18:54,870 --> 01:18:52,880
nih

2130
01:18:56,709 --> 01:18:54,880
i'm not doing that right

2131
01:18:58,790 --> 01:18:56,719
you know i think that it's been here i

2132
01:19:00,870 --> 01:18:58,800
mean without like i said there's not

2133
01:19:02,470 --> 01:19:00,880
just one phenomenon right right right

2134
01:19:03,910 --> 01:19:02,480
talk about these you know

2135
01:19:05,910 --> 01:19:03,920
you know beings like non-human

2136
01:19:07,750 --> 01:19:05,920
intelligent beings that you know almost

2137
01:19:11,350 --> 01:19:07,760
every religion refers to

2138
01:19:12,630 --> 01:19:11,360
they've been around since human history

2139
01:19:13,669 --> 01:19:12,640
you know what's interesting is we're

2140
01:19:15,590 --> 01:19:13,679
going to get through some of these

2141
01:19:17,910 --> 01:19:15,600
questions diane and i think with the

2142
01:19:19,750 --> 01:19:17,920
amount of time we have left i think

2143
01:19:21,510 --> 01:19:19,760
we're going to have room for a part two

2144
01:19:23,669 --> 01:19:21,520
to say the very least because i know

2145
01:19:25,830 --> 01:19:23,679
nathan probably had a considerable more

2146
01:19:29,030 --> 01:19:25,840
but i always like i always like leaving

2147
01:19:30,950 --> 01:19:29,040
them wanting more and having a part two

2148
01:19:32,950 --> 01:19:30,960
assuming you enjoyed yourself and you're

2149
01:19:34,709 --> 01:19:32,960
not ready to just go tell your cat i

2150
01:19:36,550 --> 01:19:34,719
can't stand these guys i'm never going

2151
01:19:37,350 --> 01:19:36,560
on them again

2152
01:19:42,229 --> 01:19:37,360
so

2153
01:19:43,910 --> 01:19:42,239
from william edward i'll read it uh just

2154
01:19:45,830 --> 01:19:43,920
to show nathan that i can read because

2155
01:19:47,910 --> 01:19:45,840
he's been wondering about this diana do

2156
01:19:50,870 --> 01:19:47,920
you think there's a thread of evil in

2157
01:19:53,990 --> 01:19:50,880
the fabric of ufos and their occupants

2158
01:19:54,950 --> 01:19:54,000
versus the tapestry of angelic savior's

2159
01:19:57,830 --> 01:19:54,960
narrative

2160
01:19:59,669 --> 01:19:57,840
question mark okay so yeah i actually

2161
01:20:02,550 --> 01:19:59,679
talked about this in american cosmic

2162
01:20:04,470 --> 01:20:02,560
where um james and i um are heading to

2163
01:20:06,790 --> 01:20:04,480
the airport and tyler

2164
01:20:09,189 --> 01:20:06,800
just after being in new mexico and we're

2165
01:20:10,790 --> 01:20:09,199
going to leave right and he's telling me

2166
01:20:13,910 --> 01:20:10,800
about the research going on at

2167
01:20:16,629 --> 01:20:13,920
skinwalker and he's basically saying

2168
01:20:18,229 --> 01:20:16,639
you know diana if you were studying this

2169
01:20:20,149 --> 01:20:18,239
you know 50 years ago we would be

2170
01:20:21,990 --> 01:20:20,159
calling these things angels and demons

2171
01:20:24,310 --> 01:20:22,000
that's what he said and i think i have

2172
01:20:26,629 --> 01:20:24,320
to agree well at least with respect to

2173
01:20:29,750 --> 01:20:26,639
skinwalker skinwalker yeah

2174
01:20:31,030 --> 01:20:29,760
now affected tic tacs i don't know but

2175
01:20:33,830 --> 01:20:31,040
there are people who had those

2176
01:20:35,910 --> 01:20:33,840
experiences on the ships like the

2177
01:20:38,870 --> 01:20:35,920
roosevelt and stuff you have had some

2178
01:20:40,070 --> 01:20:38,880
pretty bizarre experiences that seem

2179
01:20:41,110 --> 01:20:40,080
fairly

2180
01:20:42,470 --> 01:20:41,120
epic

2181
01:20:44,790 --> 01:20:42,480
but i think there are emotional

2182
01:20:46,470 --> 01:20:44,800
responses to something they can't

2183
01:20:48,629 --> 01:20:46,480
explain because when you

2184
01:20:51,270 --> 01:20:48,639
the personality types of the individual

2185
01:20:53,030 --> 01:20:51,280
seem to inform what their reaction was

2186
01:20:54,629 --> 01:20:53,040
you know because dave and alex alex was

2187
01:20:56,790 --> 01:20:54,639
like i'll have a cup of coffee she's

2188
01:20:58,470 --> 01:20:56,800
joking about it whereas kevin day was

2189
01:21:01,270 --> 01:20:58,480
like oh i think i need therapy about

2190
01:21:02,790 --> 01:21:01,280
this or sean so i think it i think it's

2191
01:21:04,870 --> 01:21:02,800
individual when you're looking at a

2192
01:21:07,030 --> 01:21:04,880
technology and you're coming to the

2193
01:21:08,149 --> 01:21:07,040
terms with the fact that that's not

2194
01:21:09,350 --> 01:21:08,159
human made

2195
01:21:11,910 --> 01:21:09,360
that's not

2196
01:21:12,830 --> 01:21:11,920
21st century human that thing is doing

2197
01:21:15,830 --> 01:21:12,840
things

2198
01:21:18,070 --> 01:21:15,840
that from an aviation standpoint from a

2199
01:21:19,750 --> 01:21:18,080
physics bernoulli's theorem standpoint i

2200
01:21:22,070 --> 01:21:19,760
didn't think were possible

2201
01:21:23,990 --> 01:21:22,080
that's absolutely the case yes

2202
01:21:26,470 --> 01:21:24,000
so all right let's bring in the next one

2203
01:21:29,110 --> 01:21:26,480
what do you got akashi for dr pisoka we

2204
01:21:32,390 --> 01:21:29,120
got six minutes left with this lady

2205
01:21:33,910 --> 01:21:32,400
na na oh okay how's it going nath was

2206
01:21:36,470 --> 01:21:33,920
diana surprised that the government

2207
01:21:38,870 --> 01:21:36,480
insiders invisible college fight club

2208
01:21:41,990 --> 01:21:38,880
military industrial complex had such

2209
01:21:45,110 --> 01:21:42,000
complex belief systems based around the

2210
01:21:47,830 --> 01:21:46,629
um i'm not sure i understand the

2211
01:21:49,350 --> 01:21:47,840
question but i'm going to try to dig

2212
01:21:51,430 --> 01:21:49,360
into it

2213
01:21:53,350 --> 01:21:51,440
so um first

2214
01:21:57,350 --> 01:21:53,360
i think first i was surprised that there

2215
01:21:59,430 --> 01:21:57,360
was such an entity um or entities

2216
01:22:02,950 --> 01:21:59,440
because there are different factions of

2217
01:22:04,870 --> 01:22:02,960
like the the yeah of uh you know that i

2218
01:22:07,750 --> 01:22:04,880
mean up here i'm just i was just a you

2219
01:22:09,990 --> 01:22:07,760
know a fairly i guess naive professor

2220
01:22:12,229 --> 01:22:10,000
just going about my life you know

2221
01:22:14,870 --> 01:22:12,239
getting tenure doing this right

2222
01:22:17,110 --> 01:22:14,880
publishing and then all of a sudden boom

2223
01:22:19,430 --> 01:22:17,120
government is doing ufo stuff and i'm

2224
01:22:20,870 --> 01:22:19,440
like wow am i in the x-files like wow

2225
01:22:22,070 --> 01:22:20,880
you know what's going on

2226
01:22:27,430 --> 01:22:22,080
and um

2227
01:22:28,550 --> 01:22:27,440
that sounds pretty californian but it's

2228
01:22:31,110 --> 01:22:28,560
true

2229
01:22:32,870 --> 01:22:31,120
so yeah so was i was i surprised

2230
01:22:36,310 --> 01:22:32,880
definitely yeah

2231
01:22:38,550 --> 01:22:36,320
rick dodie told us on air diana that um

2232
01:22:41,189 --> 01:22:38,560
he said to us and i quote

2233
01:22:43,510 --> 01:22:41,199
i've seen and read some reports or seen

2234
01:22:45,110 --> 01:22:43,520
some things that really scared me and i

2235
01:22:47,270 --> 01:22:45,120
don't scare easily

2236
01:22:49,430 --> 01:22:47,280
and when you look into his background

2237
01:22:51,510 --> 01:22:49,440
you know that he was a combat controller

2238
01:22:53,910 --> 01:22:51,520
uh and then got out went into academia

2239
01:22:55,750 --> 01:22:53,920
was the teacher came back as a special

2240
01:22:57,590 --> 01:22:55,760
agent with osi when you look at the guy

2241
01:22:59,189 --> 01:22:57,600
and he doesn't blink when he's looking

2242
01:23:01,189 --> 01:22:59,199
at you you know he doesn't scare easily

2243
01:23:02,870 --> 01:23:01,199
so there's certainly some things out

2244
01:23:05,030 --> 01:23:02,880
there that i think

2245
01:23:08,229 --> 01:23:05,040
uh those in the and louis elizondo has

2246
01:23:10,629 --> 01:23:08,239
alluded to some very scary things um

2247
01:23:13,110 --> 01:23:10,639
also that john ramirez so

2248
01:23:15,110 --> 01:23:13,120
people that have seen actual reports

2249
01:23:17,590 --> 01:23:15,120
that the government holds as true

2250
01:23:19,430 --> 01:23:17,600
have had the the poop scared out of them

2251
01:23:21,350 --> 01:23:19,440
in some measure i have a question from

2252
01:23:23,270 --> 01:23:21,360
deb that i have to ask because deb is

2253
01:23:24,550 --> 01:23:23,280
our oh all right deb i'm going to ask

2254
01:23:26,070 --> 01:23:24,560
your first question then you get the

2255
01:23:28,709 --> 01:23:26,080
second question because you're part of

2256
01:23:32,070 --> 01:23:28,719
our show and we love you um from deb i

2257
01:23:34,550 --> 01:23:32,080
asked dj to ask how people can access

2258
01:23:36,070 --> 01:23:34,560
info from the invisible college think

2259
01:23:37,910 --> 01:23:36,080
tank i think i know what the answer is

2260
01:23:39,590 --> 01:23:37,920
going to be go ahead uh

2261
01:23:41,510 --> 01:23:39,600
diana

2262
01:23:43,110 --> 01:23:41,520
um how can they access info from the

2263
01:23:45,510 --> 01:23:43,120
invisible college

2264
01:23:46,390 --> 01:23:45,520
some of it actually gets out there uh

2265
01:23:47,910 --> 01:23:46,400
although

2266
01:23:50,310 --> 01:23:47,920
they're not going to put their names on

2267
01:23:52,870 --> 01:23:50,320
it right and if they do put their names

2268
01:23:55,110 --> 01:23:52,880
on what gets out there it will be

2269
01:23:57,830 --> 01:23:55,120
peer-reviewed articles

2270
01:24:00,550 --> 01:23:57,840
and they won't have the word uap or ufo

2271
01:24:03,270 --> 01:24:00,560
in them okay and deb's second question

2272
01:24:05,030 --> 01:24:03,280
please and she's part of our part of our

2273
01:24:07,110 --> 01:24:05,040
team

2274
01:24:11,510 --> 01:24:07,120
what can the public access in order to

2275
01:24:13,430 --> 01:24:11,520
make progress so she is a researcher of

2276
01:24:16,390 --> 01:24:13,440
she scours through open source

2277
01:24:18,629 --> 01:24:16,400
information uh everywhere uh so i think

2278
01:24:22,310 --> 01:24:18,639
that's the context of this question

2279
01:24:23,990 --> 01:24:22,320
oh okay she if she does not know this

2280
01:24:24,870 --> 01:24:24,000
um yeah right

2281
01:24:29,750 --> 01:24:24,880
deb

2282
01:24:32,629 --> 01:24:29,760
um you should go to this conference at

2283
01:24:35,030 --> 01:24:32,639
rice in houston um and it's in the

2284
01:24:37,750 --> 01:24:35,040
spring i'll be going there and it's

2285
01:24:41,030 --> 01:24:37,760
basically the opening of the archives of

2286
01:24:44,790 --> 01:24:41,040
the impossible which jeff cripel who is

2287
01:24:47,910 --> 01:24:44,800
a professor there has um basically has

2288
01:24:50,149 --> 01:24:47,920
archives from so many researchers who

2289
01:24:52,470 --> 01:24:50,159
are in the invisible college some who

2290
01:24:55,030 --> 01:24:52,480
are not but should be

2291
01:24:56,629 --> 01:24:55,040
um basically this amazing body of

2292
01:24:57,430 --> 01:24:56,639
research including

2293
01:24:59,430 --> 01:24:57,440
our

2294
01:25:03,350 --> 01:24:59,440
jacques valley's collection

2295
01:25:05,510 --> 01:25:03,360
um like just people that are have been

2296
01:25:08,709 --> 01:25:05,520
doing this for many you know just many

2297
01:25:10,629 --> 01:25:08,719
years and so this archive is is going to

2298
01:25:12,229 --> 01:25:10,639
be open to

2299
01:25:13,430 --> 01:25:12,239
someone like her that's interested in

2300
01:25:15,030 --> 01:25:13,440
the research

2301
01:25:17,430 --> 01:25:15,040
and the best thing about rice it's

2302
01:25:18,709 --> 01:25:17,440
gluten-free so i think everybody should

2303
01:25:21,990 --> 01:25:18,719
consider that

2304
01:25:24,149 --> 01:25:22,000
um so it's up nathan did you have a uh

2305
01:25:25,750 --> 01:25:24,159
okay so nathan says he's good so please

2306
01:25:27,830 --> 01:25:25,760
if you would akashi

2307
01:25:29,830 --> 01:25:27,840
this is from harley492 lots of

2308
01:25:32,629 --> 01:25:29,840
experiencers that claim to have

2309
01:25:34,870 --> 01:25:32,639
face-to-face contact with the visitors

2310
01:25:36,950 --> 01:25:34,880
say that the visitors are frustrated

2311
01:25:39,590 --> 01:25:36,960
because humans destroy this planet over

2312
01:25:42,870 --> 01:25:39,600
and over again do we as humans get a

2313
01:25:46,550 --> 01:25:42,880
do-over miss diana

2314
01:25:49,990 --> 01:25:48,229
unfortunately yeah

2315
01:25:51,990 --> 01:25:50,000
i think you're right we're all

2316
01:25:54,390 --> 01:25:52,000
environmentally conscious on this

2317
01:25:57,030 --> 01:25:54,400
program so

2318
01:25:59,430 --> 01:25:57,040
yeah well i i can't i know

2319
01:26:00,870 --> 01:25:59,440
dj would say the same but we are uh

2320
01:26:01,750 --> 01:26:00,880
beyond thrilled to have had you on the

2321
01:26:03,510 --> 01:26:01,760
show

2322
01:26:06,070 --> 01:26:03,520
um you've helped us think through some

2323
01:26:06,870 --> 01:26:06,080
of these things in ways that uh you know

2324
01:26:08,470 --> 01:26:06,880
these

2325
01:26:11,669 --> 01:26:08,480
super beneficial to me

2326
01:26:13,510 --> 01:26:11,679
um the interpretive lens uh i think has

2327
01:26:15,669 --> 01:26:13,520
been widened and i really appreciate

2328
01:26:16,870 --> 01:26:15,679
that and uh i hope you had a good time

2329
01:26:18,390 --> 01:26:16,880
as well we try to cut up a little bit

2330
01:26:20,470 --> 01:26:18,400
here uh we just keep a little more

2331
01:26:21,590 --> 01:26:20,480
serious but yeah we we look forward to

2332
01:26:23,110 --> 01:26:21,600
having an opportunity to chat with you

2333
01:26:24,149 --> 01:26:23,120
again in the future hopefully sounds

2334
01:26:25,990 --> 01:26:24,159
awesome

2335
01:26:27,830 --> 01:26:26,000
yes uh i agree

2336
01:26:29,910 --> 01:26:27,840
i say that it's an honor when anybody

2337
01:26:32,149 --> 01:26:29,920
wants to come on and talk with us or

2338
01:26:34,390 --> 01:26:32,159
invites us to talk with them and and i

2339
01:26:36,790 --> 01:26:34,400
do mean that and yeah it's extremely

2340
01:26:38,709 --> 01:26:36,800
special when it's a person

2341
01:26:40,790 --> 01:26:38,719
like yourself who's we consider

2342
01:26:43,189 --> 01:26:40,800
brilliant and quite frankly we look up

2343
01:26:45,590 --> 01:26:43,199
to so um

2344
01:26:47,669 --> 01:26:45,600
so thank you very much so for uh for deb

2345
01:26:50,550 --> 01:26:47,679
who's in the back that's at a study of

2346
01:26:54,790 --> 01:26:50,560
uaps for our associate producer akashi

2347
01:26:57,590 --> 01:26:54,800
chris and for griers flair flareus kevin

2348
01:27:00,390 --> 01:26:57,600
and for nathan this is djs and uh dr

2349
01:27:02,830 --> 01:27:00,400
pasulka this dj saying peace out

2350
01:27:05,500 --> 01:27:02,840
one love and we'll see you down the